Being pulled over while carrying

[Bill of Rights]

You are right, we are not super human, and we are just men and women. But......there is more difference than just a shield and the uniform. That's just ignorant. Lets compare work days sometime, SERIOUSLY, come on now.
The Officer Down Memorial Page, Inc.

Not what I meant, Glock Lover. Of course the risks inherent in your job are high, but they are part of your job. The risks of a vehicle accident with an ambulance are high also, but I can't expect to completely clear the roads to get where I'm going. I can only "ask" for the right-of-way with the lights and siren. My comment was addressed to the idea that all LEOs have a mastery over firearms the normal citizen cannot attain paired with the idea that one person is more important than another solely because of his/her job. The job may be more important; the person equally important but no more nor less.

No disrespect intended; sorry for the confusion.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Jack Ryan]

...thinking...

 

[Soundslikejosh]

If you are in MY car then you ARE my business. The driver is responsible for knowing what is going on in his car. You may not like it, but that is the way it is. Case law supports this.

Maybe you should soften up your stance a bit.

You may be right FPD. I will give this more thought. While I agree that I am responsible for what's in my car, I don't see how it's appropriate for me to volunteer that my passengers are following the law. If the LEO has a concern, he is welcome to address that with his inquiries. At this point, I still consider it over-stepping your bounds at the driver to volunteer everything that is going on in the car legally. Remember, a driver not voluntarily disclosing his carry status isn't illegal. Further, if I as the driver disclose, but do not disclose the passenger's status, have I done something wrong? I could also inform you that my passenger is wearing Superman underpants and is a chubby chaser, but that's no more necessary or law abiding. I don't mean to be rude but I hope that illustrates my point.

However, I will give this more thought. I do not disrepect LEO but wish to find the delicate balance between their safety and mine.

Regards,
Josh

 

[s346k]

i simply inform the officer as quickly and politely as possible. he/she will instruct from there, each person is different. usually right after asking for the license and registration i squeeze in my say...something like:

(license and registration, please)

me - yes...you should know i have a loaded handgun in the vehicle and a valid ltch, as well.

...the officer's next step varies.

asap and as straight-forward as possible.

 

[fpdshooter]

You may be right FPD. I will give this more thought. While I agree that I am responsible for what's in my car, I don't see how it's appropriate for me to volunteer that my passengers are following the law. If the LEO has a concern, he is welcome to address that with his inquiries. At this point, I still consider it over-stepping your bounds at the driver to volunteer everything that is going on in the car legally. Remember, a driver not voluntarily disclosing his carry status isn't illegal. Further, if I as the driver disclose, but do not disclose the passenger's status, have I done something wrong? I could also inform you that my passenger is wearing Superman underpants and is a chubby chaser, but that's no more necessary or law abiding. I don't mean to be rude but I hope that illustrates my point.

However, I will give this more thought. I do not disrepect LEO but wish to find the delicate balance between their safety and mine.

Regards,
Josh

Ok Josh let give you a real life example of how a passenger with a gun goes really bad for everyone involved.

About two years ago, I stopped a car for some aggressive driving (speeding, following too closely, whipping in and out of traffic, and other general asshatery). The car has four people in it. At the initial approach I get the driver's license from the driver. The front seat passenger is not wearing a seatbelt, so I get his DL as well. Run the driver and passenger. Driver comes back ok, but passenger has a warrant from Georgia. It is something nonviolent, child support maybe? - I don't remember, but it is a moot point as Georgia won't extradite.

I get back to the driver and tell him to knock it off and drive like he has some sense - no ticket. I ask the passenger if he would step out (so I can talk to him about the warrant - again for a nonviolent offense).

I'm taking with the passenger for about 30 seconds (very cordial as were both laughing about something he said). All the sudden, a silver Taurus 92 falls out of the front of his waistband and lands on the ground! We are about 3-4 feet apart. He looks down at the gun and by the time his eyes come back up to me, he has a .40 barrel stuck in his left eye.

I spin him around and drag him back to the rear of my car and keep him in between me, his gun, and his buddies. I get some back up coming. We take the other 3 guys out of the car at gunpoint, handcuff each one, and detain each one in different squad cars.

Once everyone is in custody, the scene is secure, now we can figure out exactly what went wrong for the passenger. Come to find out, passenger is an IN resident and has a valid IN permit. The gun is not stolen. The passenger did not think it was a problem to exit the vehicle with his gun. He said that he never felt it come out of his waist band.

Driver said that he knew his buddy was carrying, but didn't think to tell me at the time.

So...

• What if passenger felt the gun slipping out of his pants and goes to grab it? (Pssst - dead guy!)
• Driver, who knew he was carrying, didn't say anything and as a result got removed from his car at gunpoint, and handcuffed.

If passenger had of said from the get go that he was carrying, his buddies would not have had guns pointed at them.

So I believe that it is every bit the business of the driver as to what is going on in his car.

When everything was said and done, everyone was released without charges. The gun was secured in the trunk of the suspect car until we left the scene, as the owner clearly demonstrated he could not handle one, stuffing it his pants mexican style . The passenger was very apologetic. The driver was pissed at the passenger to say the least, however thanked us for not shooting any of them and said he would probably would have shot his buddy if he saw what I did.

Bottom line is that this is your world, I'm just living in it. You handle yourself however you deem appropriate. However, don't complain if you don't tell an officer you are carrying and he/she finds it on thier own. Looking down the business end of a gun really isn't all that much fun.

 

[Glock Lover]

Excellent example fpdshooter!!

 

[FordMan08]

If you own a Glock, just throw it out in traffic as your car comes to a stop. Even if its run over a few times it wont hurt it.

If you own any other brand of firearm just let the officer know while keeping your hands on the wheel.

 

[Soundslikejosh]

Looking down the business end of a gun really isn't all that much fun.

Now there's something we can all agree on!!

I appreciate your example. It shows that just about anything stupid can happen.

IMO, there were a ton of mistakes made in that scenario, and non-disclosure is only part of the problem. I think it's prudent to speak up if you must exit the vehicle. However, the passenger is not a child, and needs to act like a grown up. He needs to either speak up or be damn sure his firearm is secured. I see the negative outcome you are trying to show, but I still don't see how that makes me (as driver) responsible for what my passenger does. I understand in the legal sense, but we are discussing what is wise, not what is required by law. The two are not the same, nor are they mutually exclusive.

IMO, the driver did not make a mistake in your example. His buddy made several mistakes. First, he exited the vehicle without disclosing his carry status. Second, he wasn't even carrying properly.

I chose not to disclose, but I don't generalize that choice to all situations. I just think that for "routine" traffic stops, it is not prudent. I respect that others disagree. The idiot in your example is not exactly a strong argument against my POV, because it is comparing apples and kiwi's.

Regards,
Josh

 

[s346k]

IMO, the driver did not make a mistake in your example.

i disagree. i see my car as i see my house. you wouldn't let someone in your house knowing they have drugs or illegal guns or anything generally unsafe. i hope you'd view your vehicle as the same. i feel i'm ultimately responsible for the vehicle. throwing trash out of it, yelling out of it, etc. anyone getting in my car will adhere to my wants or they can take a hike. that means they have to secure their firearm somewhere other than their waistband, as that is unsafe and i really don't feel like taking a bullet because my "buddy" is an idiot. i feel that in that particular situation the driver is just as wrong about weapons and carrying as the passenger. if you (impersonal) know it's going on in YOUR car and refuse to do something about it...i guess you deserve what's coming.

 

[Denny347]

Hmm, if I want to verify your CHL and I take it back to my car with me, I have no choice but to take your handgun with me. Being in possession of your pistol w/o your CHL on your person is a violation of law, same charge as carrying a firearms without a license. See, I'm doing you a "favor".

 

[indyjoe]

My personal preference is this: I will probably not volunteer the fact that I am carrying, if we are only talking through the window. At any time that I am asked out of the car, for both our safety, I would volunteer and ask for directions.