Bill of Sale

[71silverbullet]

I have a receipt book with entries from as far back as 1995.

If i sell any firearm I record the buyers name and DL number. (proves residency) and Ask to See LTCH (Proves no felony,) I also record serial number/model of firearm. and amount sold for. I also provide the same info to buyer my DL number and show them my LTCH. And date sold. Both myself and buyer get a copy. Seems to have nothing but up sides for both parties.

I don't think I have ever had anyone complain about it. Think of it as signing my yearbook of firearms. After all that reciept book is in the safe with the firearms.

Recording info from DL and seeing a LTCH PROVES nothing. All you have to do is goto the license branch and get a dupilicate of your DL, then if you move you keep the original when you get the DL from the new state. Anyone can forge a LTCH good enough to fool you or me.
Also you can transport your new gun home from the gun shop without a LTCH right?!
I had the same thing happen to me a few weeks ago after driving a pretty good distance to meet a man he then asked me to sign a bill of sale. If this would have been mentioned up front wouldnt have made the trip. Since I was there I did it but now regret it. I sent him an email explaining that in the future he should make this clear up front and he understood.
I am comfortable showing my LTCH and DL and feel better if I at least can see the other persons DL. I never record any info from their DL but I do have a spread sheet of all the guns that I currently own and every gun that I have bought or sold over the last 3 years. It has gun description, sn, date of transaction, if it was from a gun show I note that and if it was from the internet, like this site I log the persons username.

 

[Prometheus]

To me, it doesn't matter. I still want to see a drivers license and a LTCH. If you refuse, find another deal.

As of July 1, there is no need for an LTCH to transport.

Shhhh, don't confuse people with facts...

Nope. Even under the old law the buyer was legally excepted to transport a handgun unloaded and in a secure wrapper from the place of purchase (even a public place) to their home or fixed place of business.

I said SHHHHH! those pesky facts are rearing their ugly head again!

---

I see a few people who 'require' this or that. It's asinine. It offers NO protection under the law. NONE. ZERO. ZIP. ZILCH.

It's like an unarmed security guard in a bank. All for show, nothing more.

I don't hand over ID or sign or ask for bill of sale. Why would anyone? Aside from being nothing but a hassle with NOTHING to gain by doing it, you are handing over personal information to someone who knows you own guns and have at least some disposable income.

It's not just silly, it stupid and dangerous.

FantasyLand isn't just a place in Disney World.

 

[jedi]

The main reason is to prove a transfer in ownership. You should have gotten a copy as well so both ends are protected. Any gun i sell i write up some form of receipt.

Hypothetically speaking, i'd want to have myself covered if i sold a handgun to a stranger who (seemed) nice who then went on a shooting rampage. At least if the gun were to be traced back to me i'd have the receipt to show the gun was not in my possession and who might have it. And it works on the buyers end as well (assuming you got a copy). Then the seller couldn't report the gun "stolen" or anything and try to get their money back and the gun.

I try to see the best in everyone, but as my father always used to say in poker: "Trust everyone, but ALWAYS cut the cards!"

I know I am in the minority here but I see nothing wrong with some kind of receipt or bill of sale. If I sell to someone that lets the gun get into the wrong hands I can at least say I sold it this guy on this paper.

I fully agree that I would not want my name and address on the receipt. If you are concerned enough that someone might rob you once they have your address, then you might be concerned with what they might do with the gun you sold them. I am.

I don't think this is being too paranoid. But if it is, then I'm OK with that.

A bill of sales in INDIANA has no legal baring. I don't have the link to the court case but it's been posted time and time again that a bill of sale for firearms is meaningless in court.

If you really want a papertrail that the gun is no longer yours you have to go the FFL route (ie. you sell to other person & do the transfer via an FFL).

 

[686 Shooter]

I recently had a trade go south because I couldn't produce a receipt showing that I was the owner of the gun that I was trading. I didn't really understand his logic, I just assumed that he was a wannabe lawyer and was playing a game of CYA.

 

[Fullmag]

It's for personal records, also paranoia, this digital age it's kinda scary leaving that info out there I must admit. It's not reported to Gov. like a FFL transfer. It is some peace of mind that buying a gun off a complete stranger that it's not stolen, because if something was wrong with the deal then the seller would want to leave any traces.

 

[marv]

Most of the guns I bought from dealers didn't come w/a bill of sale. The few I got I had to practically beg for.

 

[armedindy]

a simple receipt can make alot of people feel much more at rest...i wouldnt put too much info into it tho...just name, gun (maybe serial number), date and sign

 

[us_agent]

I recently had a trade go south because I couldn't produce a receipt showing that I was the owner of the gun that I was trading. I didn't really understand his logic, I just assumed that he was a wannabe lawyer and was playing a game of CYA.

Glad that never happened to me I would have stroked out. I don't think I have kept any of my original receipts over the years.

And I'm not down with a BOS. All I've done is mark down what and where on an excel spreadsheet. That's the extent of score keeping I have. If it's not required don't bother. It may be more trouble than not but if that's what you need to feel all fuzzy inside then do what you got to do.

 

[mikefraz]

I don't get the stink about giving out your address...If I have your name, more than likely I can open a phone book and find your address. Anybody with 15 minutes of free time and an internet connection can probably find out where you live. Just saying. It's not like you're giving them the code to your garage door or some backup keys to your house.

 

[Sylvain]

I don't get the stink about giving out your address...If I have your name, more than likely I can open a phone book and find your address. Anybody with 15 minutes of free time and an internet connection can probably find out where you live. Just saying. It's not like you're giving them the code to your garage door or some backup keys to your house.

You wont find my address in the phone book, nore will you find it online if you know my name.

 

[Otis]

I sold a pistol to a friend and it was stolen from him and used to kill someone. ATF called me and wanted proof of who I sold it to. A bill of sale isn't much to ask for is it?

 

[ATM]

I sold a pistol to a friend and it was stolen from him and used to kill someone. ATF called me and wanted proof of who I sold it to. A bill of sale isn't much to ask for is it?

ATF can want anything. They'll get nothing from me as nothing is required.

 

[PriestEG]

ATF can want anything. They'll get nothing from me as nothing is required.

 

[jeremy]

I sold a pistol to a friend and it was stolen from him and used to kill someone. ATF called me and wanted proof of who I sold it to. A bill of sale isn't much to ask for is it?

The ATF can want in one hand and defecate in the other and just see which will get filled first...

 

[PistolBob]

A bill of sale is very helpful when you are trying to explain to your insurance company how much something is worth. Especially when you are trying to get reimbursed for it after it has been stolen from you, or lost be cause of fire, accident, or weather.

When I sell a gun, which is almost never, I always have a two copy Bill of Sale for the buyer to sign. We both get a copy.

 

[the1kidd03]

another thing to point out is that not only should BOTH (buyer and seller) have an original copy.....but if one person is requiring a bill of sale with a LTCH verification, then BOTH should put down either their LTCH # or DL #....reason being that all that information is stored in an electronic storage system (database) somewhere....and would you like someone else having "access" to you personal identification info without having theirs in return???

 

[Titanium_Frost]

another thing to point out is that not only should BOTH (buyer and seller) have an original copy.....but if one person is requiring a bill of sale with a LTCH verification, then BOTH should put down either their LTCH # or DL #....reason being that all that information is stored in an electronic storage system (database) somewhere....and would you like someone else having "access" to you personal identification info without having theirs in return???

I say bill of sale = no sale. Check a DL to verify state resident, ask "are you a felon or a proper person?" Good to go AFAIC.

ATF can take a hike. They are feds and Sales between persons residing in the same state is a state matter.

 

[jeremy]

A bill of sale is very helpful when you are trying to explain to your insurance company how much something is worth. Especially when you are trying to get reimbursed for it after it has been stolen from you, or lost be cause of fire, accident, or weather.

I have always found Receipts (Bill of Sale) to be slightly above useless for this purpose.

 

[the1kidd03]

I say bill of sale = no sale. Check a DL to verify state resident, ask "are you a felon or a proper person?" Good to go AFAIC.

ATF can take a hike. They are feds and Sales between persons residing in the same state is a state matter.

I usually do to....I don't like anyone knowing my goodies....ESPECIALLY the government.....but when I come across one of those rare great deals and they ask for a bill of sale....I know too well from my training how easy it is to get someone's information...and so I make sure I have just as much about them as they do me.....and take notice of their vehicle make, model, license number before I leave...

 

[DarkEyes]

prevent me from reporting the firearm stolen

Is why I get a receipt for EVERYTHING I buy. Even at a garage sale.