Black Powder to Cartridge?

[LegatoRedrivers]

I just recently picked up this little gem: a replica 1851 Colt Naval Black Powder Revolver in .36.

Now, I have two muzzleloaders, but this is the first black powder handgun. I love the look and feel of this old girl, but the second I got it home, of course I started wondering about the possibility of converting it to fire cartridges.

I've done a bit of research, and it looks like there are kits available to get it converted to .38 special, and they say it works well provided you use soft lead bullets (wad-cutter rounds, for example.)

Does anyone have experience with this kind of conversion? Also, what kind of legal requirements would there be? As far as I know, older black powder arms aren't technically considered "firearms" under the law, so I want to ensure I avoid any potentially sticky situations...

 

[ru44mag]

Prior to 1873, a lot of gunsmiths converted colts over. Smith and Wesson actually had a patent saying only they could drill all the way through the cylinders. When the patent ran out, Colt introduced the Peacemaker, and the rest is history. I would not recommend the conversion. I have a couple Black Powder revolvers as well. I was thinking about doing the same thing. My guess is you would be better off buying one that was manufactured to look like a conversion. Not sure who makes them, but they look pretty cool. I'm sure you could google it. The money spent on the conversion might be as much as the gun. Besides, once you load up the one you have, and shoot it. You will think it is pretty cool. Read up on loading and cleaning, before you shoot it. Have fun.

 

[1861navy]

I know Karst conversion cylinders are about 250 don't remember much else other than I thought about it too, but that's more than I paid for the gun, and once i cleaned, lightened trigger/hammer, and smoothed and lubed the action, then shot it, i fell in love and the same it stays.

 

[artbymac]

Howell's also makes a converted cylinder(s). Not sure if they have what you need or not though. You can find them on Midway.

I've actually been looking for an 1851 Navy myself, but I think I'm going to get one that comes converted already. Uberti makes one, and I think Cimarron as well. I'm sure there are others too.

 

[Claddagh]

One possible problem with the .38 spl. conversions is that the bore diameter of a .36 C&B revolver is quite significantly oversized for its 0.357" (nom.) bullet. Originals ran about 0.375" and most replicas are closely similar.

Using HBWC .38 Spl. loads might work pretty well, as might some dead-soft LSWC or RN projectiles but I would expect to get considerable lead fouling in the forcing cone and bore.

Most all of the purpose-made Richards and Richards-Mason "cartridge conversion" and Colt 1872 replicas in .38 Spl. are made with 0.357-0.358" chamber mouths and bores to better adapt them to the ammunition. They are however, pretty costly IMHO.

If you do buy a conversion cylinder, please understand that ONLY standard pressure .38 Spl. ammo loaded with lead projectiles should be used in them. The firing of +P loadings and/or metal jacketed projectiles could be dangerous, "modern" metallurgy notwithstanding. The open-top design just isn't strong enough to withstand the additional stresses.

Jusy MO. YOMV and they're your hands and eyes.

 

[Flinttim]

While quite strong enough for BP loads those Colt replicas might be a bit overpowered with a .38 load. BTW I'm pretty sure a conversion would have to go thru an FFL. Heck just enjoy it for what it is. A lot of those if not all replicas have chambers that are smaller than the rifled bore. You won't get the best accuracy unless the chambers are reamed out to slightly larger than the bore. I had to do that to a Remington replica I had.

 

[warren5421]

You can buy a conversion cylinder for it. You will have to remove the cylinder to load or unload. You can get a kit from Kenny Howe but you will wait for a time. Taylor Firearms and Navy Arms sell Kurst conversion cylinders. If you file the loading area enough to load a round you can not sell it ever as you have manufactured a fire arm. SASS shooters use the conversion cylinders a lot as they only shoot 5 from each pistol. You will need to know who made your gun Uberti or Pitta are the two major makers. Your gun was imported by Navy Arms but made by one of the makers. Go to SASS Fourm and ask there for information. Personally I have never bought any of the conversion cylinders as I like shooting the gun with powder and ball. Done it for 55 years.

SASS shooters who use their conversions can shoot 600-2000 rounds of .38 sp per year of SASS.

 

[JB357Mag]

I did this with a 45 colt 1851 with a kirst converter.

Be prepared to do some gunsmithing. You cant just stick a different
cylinder in a gun , the timing will be off.

Its perfectly legal. It will be considered a firearm, as long as your ok
to own one no problem.

Jimmy

 

[sun]

The ammo fired in the conversion cylinders really needs to be loaded with heeled bullets that will more easily obturate or expand enough to fill the bore and engage the rifling.
The .38 Special bullets are ~.357, while the original & reproduction .36 C&B bores are just that, .36 caliber. That's why the cap & ball revolvers use .375 balls for ammo., to better engage the rifling.
If the right conversion cylinder is purchased for the brand or manufacturer of the gun, then it should fit or can be easily fit for proper timing.
Do you know which Italian maker manufactured it? Not all of the Navy Arms guns are clearly marked as to who made them. Navy Arms was an importer and not a manufacturer. A good cap & ball (a.k.a. cowboy action) gunsmith shouldn't have a problem with timing a conversion cylinder if needed. And should also be able to determine who made it using a combination of cylinder/frame measurements and experience.

 

[sun]

If you file the loading area enough to load a round you can not sell it ever as you have manufactured a fire arm.

I and many other C&B revolver owners do not agree with the above statement since simply cutting a loading groove for cartridges doesn't prohibit the continued use of the percussion cylinder.
As long as the modification doesn't prohibit the use of the percussion cylinder and the conversion cylinder isn't installed on the frame, then it's still only a percussion revolver that's considered to be an antique/reproduction under Federal Law. A percussion C&B revolver can be sold with a loading modification. And even if the conversion cylinder is installed then it can still be transferred through an FFL dealer.
But most folks tend to buy, sell & ship both the percussion gun and conversion cylinder as separate parts to keep matters simple.

 

[SERparacord]

1851 | 1861 Colt Navy revolver | Cartridge Conversion | Ejector

 

[JB357Mag]

Anyone can manufacture A firearm, then sell it later.

You just cant mfg a bunch of them.

When you modify the frame, it is a firearm per the info I
got with my kirst converter.

I had a lot of trouble with that thing, something broke in the
action again and Im pretty much done with it.

Jimmy