Blackhorn 209, pyrodex for reloading- would it work?

[woodsie57]

With the pistol powders all hard to home by lately, I've been wondering if BP substitutes would be a viable alternative. Mainly talking .38, .44, and .357 with cast bullets, nothing fancy. Especially the BLackhorn 209, supposed to be clean and not prone to corrosion, but the pkg says to use w/209 primers only. Anybody try this with standard pistol primers?

 

[jwh20]

http://www.blackhorn209.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/b209blackpowdercartridgedata.pdf

 

[oldfb]

I bet the SASS crowd will have a guru for all those black powder conversions since that would be very beneficial to their sport during the component droughts/shortages.

 

[Brian Ski]

I know black powder (after fired) absorbs moisture and will rust a barrel. Plus it is dirty and hard to clean. Not sure how many shots you could get off before a cleaning. I don't know how bad pyrodex is. I wonder if you could damage a barrel by firing a bullet down a very dirty barrel. (explode a gun)

 

[woodsie57]

That's why I'm wondering- the BH209 is said to not leave the residue that BP (and Pyrodex )are known for. Sounds like a good substitute for Trail Boss if there's no ignition problems

 

[jwh20]

I know black powder (after fired) absorbs moisture and will rust a barrel. Plus it is dirty and hard to clean. Not sure how many shots you could get off before a cleaning. I don't know how bad pyrodex is. I wonder if you could damage a barrel by firing a bullet down a very dirty barrel. (explode a gun)

You should note that neither Pyrodex or Blackhorn are actually black powder. Both are modern propellant formulations which are designed to be black powder substitutes. Many folks these days say "black powder" but they really don't use that stuff much any longer.

 

[Brian Ski]

You should note that neither Pyrodex or Blackhorn are actually black powder. Both are modern propellant formulations which are designed to be black powder substitutes. Many folks these days say "black powder" but they really don't use that stuff much any longer.

Yea I am learning about them. They are substitutes, but don't always work even close to the real stuff in certain circumstances. They still use/sell black powder. It has special storage conditions so most places do not want to deal with the extra hassles.

 

[jwh20]

Yea I am learning about them. They are substitutes, but don't always work even close to the real stuff in certain circumstances. They still use/sell black powder. It has special storage conditions so most places do not want to deal with the extra hassles.

For most modern muzzle loaders and metallic cartridge loading, ignition is not a problem as you're typically using a primer which gives plenty of ignition. It's only older firearms like flintlocks where you're trying to get it going with a flint spark. Real black powder is very ignitable (which is what makes it so dangerous to handle) and the spark will set it off. Of course that one of the advantages of smokeless powder, it takes more than a spark to set it off.

 

[Cerberus]

I know black powder (after fired) absorbs moisture and will rust a barrel. Plus it is dirty and hard to clean. Not sure how many shots you could get off before a cleaning. I don't know how bad pyrodex is. I wonder if you could damage a barrel by firing a bullet down a very dirty barrel. (explode a gun)

BP is dirty and hydroscopic as you mentioned, but it is far from hard to clean up. In fact is easier to clean that most smokeless powders.

 

[woodsie57]

Thanks jwh20! So the answer is yes, it works as a pistol powder

 

[jstory]

Yea I am learning about them. They are substitutes, but don't always work even close to the real stuff in certain circumstances. They still use/sell black powder. It has special storage conditions so most places do not want to deal with the extra hassles.

I am lucky enough to have a place close enough that still sells real black. I only have one bp rifle that will ignite Pyrodex reliably. I use real black in my side locks and flint locks. I do use pyro pellets with my I lines, but a 209 primer provides alot of fire...

 

[jamesb]

Yeah they work. When shooting CAS there is a category where you can only shoot BP or subs in metallic cases. I reload brass shotshells using goex FFG and large pistol primers and have not had any problems with ignition. I also load 45 schofield with APP and large pistol primers, and again no problems. I use APP because it works with standard crayon bullet lube so I do not have to get special BP lubed bullets. Clean up is not hard, just have to know how to do it with water and balistol. I use BH209 in my encore 50 cal muzzle loader with 209 shotgun primers and it ignites fine. The BH209 acts more like a smokeless powder than BP, it does not create a lot of smoke and it cleans up with hoppes. I know SASS outlawed BH209 in the BP categories because of it. On range days with it I find it barely leaves any residue in my barrel.

 

[lizerdking]

I've shot 45lc out of a vaquero on black powder loads. It kicked like a mule but no signs of over pressure.

Being that the vaquero isn't a super strong revolver (no disrespect they ain't that bad either), and 38/357 have smaller case volumes I wouldn't be concerned. YMMV and all dislaimers attached.

BP/Pyro does need to be a compressed load or things will end poorly to my understanding.

I had the same thought when I was having trouble finding powder, I came to the conclusion that is not worth it. Keep looking, you'll find some trail boss or something else that will work.

 

[Brian Ski]

BP/Pyro does need to be a compressed load or things will end poorly to my understanding.

That is what I am finding. Real black powder does not need to be compressed, but the BP substitutes do. Without the compression the powder will not ignite fully. That does not mean that it will not work well in a cartridge, but not work well with a loose bullet. IE like a cannon or mortar.

 

[Cerberus]

That is what I am finding. Real black powder does not need to be compressed, but the BP substitutes do. Without the compression the powder will not ignite fully. That does not mean that it will not work well in a cartridge, but not work well with a loose bullet. IE like a cannon or mortar.

Excuse me! Real BP does need to be compressed. At least it does according to every BPCR shooter I've ever met.