?BM59 Knowledge?

[areynolds]

Hey there, was wondering if anyone had any knowledge on older BM59's. Most everything I've found online is directed toward ones with the Beretta stamping on them, mine is a CAI. Most of the info I found about the CAI imports were that they were trash. If you've got any details about these I'd love to hear about it, I'd like to date this if possible, and I don't want to believe all these were trash. Thanks any info is appreciated.

 

[Winamac]

I guess I will show my ignorance. What is a BM59?

 

[erasure]

I guess I will show my ignorance. What is a BM59?

It's a Garand. In 308, with a 20rd detachable magazine, bipod and grenade launcher on the muzzle, select fire. Italian issue rifle immediately following WW2.

 

[jcj54]

Sorry, not immediately following WW2, adopted by Italy in 1959.

 

[Winamac]

Okay, thank you. I did some research on them from Scott Duffs book on the M1 Garand. The BM59 was also called the "tanker Garand". Which according to the book was only a concept at the very, very tail end of WWII. So much so a "concept" that the war ended and the idea was abandoned by the US military. Only one actual US " Tanker Garand" exist and it is in a museum at West Point. Now, according to what I read. After the war Italian companies began offering the service of modifying existing M1Garands to "Tanker Garands".
If we are talking about the same rifle?

 

[Megasaki]

BM59's, in the 80's, came in two flavors. Italian and USA Springfield Armory produced. The originals were the Italian made ones. SA got some Italian parts and also produced their own variations. One of them is the BM59D which looks like a M1 rifle with a stripper clip guide and a 20rd box magazine. In 1980/81 the Italian made model was the more desirable for value. The SA produced model was more robust. There were multiple reports of the Italian produced rifles having issues, while the SA produced BM59's kept on rockn.

SA made them in various barrel lengths and styles. The Italian version came with or without the grenade launched attached, but had the shorter barrel.

As to your CAI produced one, I remember hearing that there were BM59/62 parts being sent to a US Importer for assembly in the late 80's or early 90's. Probably CAI.

 

[PaulF]

The BM59 was a select-fire variant of the M1 Garand chambered to .308, built by Beretta in Italy in the late 1950's and early 1960's on WW2 surplus M1 garand tooling.

A HANDFUL of semi-auto and select fire examples were imported by Springfield armory whole in the 60's, and a number of companies brought in parts kits after 1968. Every once in a great while you will see one of these change hands.

In the 1960's a company called Golden State Arms sold a gun called the "Santa Fe/Trooper M59." These guns were built in California from re-welded de-milled Garand receivers modified to take Real BM-59 magazines, and fitted to cut-down 2-[STRIKE]lug[/STRIKE] groove '03 Springfield barrels. These rifles can be easily identified by differences in the gas system that set them apart from genuine BM-59s, Garands, or M14.


"Santa-Fe M59":

Genuine BM-59 from Italy - imported by Springfield Armory:

Note on the real BM-59 the barrel and gas tube/op rod remain parallel. On the "Trooper/M59" there is a visible bend in the op-rod/gas tube.

These rifles were built on re-welded scrap Garand receivers...and have a reputation for rather poor (re)construction.

Look closely in the above pic, you can make out where the receiver was welded. Users on the M14, Garand, and BM59 forums all tend to agree that these rifles should not be fired.

I would love to see some pics of the marking on your specific rifle...if you stumbled across a Springfield-Imported genuine BM59 you have quite a rare bird!!!

EDIT:

After re-reading your post I saw that you are specifically interested in CAI-built rifles. I'm afraid I have no direct experience with the CAI rifles, but I was under the impression they were built from Italian parts kits on in-spec surplus (not re-welded) receivers. Let me get into my books for a minute, I might be able to come up with a few more details for you....

 

[Winamac]

Okay, thank you. I did some research on them from Scott Duffs book on the M1 Garand. The BM59 was also called the "tanker Garand". Which according to the book was only a concept at the very, very tail end of WWII. So much so a "concept" that the war ended and the idea was abandoned by the US military. Only one actual US " Tanker Garand" exist and it is in a museum at West Point. Now, according to what I read. After the war Italian companies began offering the service of modifying existing M1Garands to "Tanker Garands".
If we are talking about the same rifle?

After reading PaulF's awesome thread. I digress. My description is NOT the same rifle. Very informative PaulF. Thanks.

 

[drillsgt]

James River Armory was selling some BM-59 repros through Classic Firearms before Corona.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

They're neat rifles. Almost like a hybrid between an M1A and a Garand.

 

[PaulF]

Wow...so the BM59 rabbit hole has actually gotten quite a bit deeper that last couple of years!

Turns out BM59 parts hits are making something of a comeback these last couple of years, but the problem with parts kits is they don't come with receivers. One of the companies offering BM59 receivers was James River Armory(JRA). JRA issued a recall on some of its receivers, including almost all of those sold by SARCO.

SARCO released a recall:

Complete kits (or maybe even assembled rifles(?)) appear to have been primarily sold through ClassicFirarms.com, with the recall affecting a certain serial number range.

While I have no first-hand knowledge of CAI BM59s the Garand community - in general - does seem to have a poor opinion of CAI Garand receivers. If your rifle is built from one you may want to have it checked by a knowledgeable gunsmith to ensure it is up to spec.

I hope this helps!

 

[red_zr24x4]

If I remember correctly over on the m14form.com there is a section on BM59's

 

[areynolds]

Thanks for your response, great info.

 

[areynolds]

Thanks for the info trying to upload pics

Thanks for all the great info. Im not great at using the forum but I hope you can see the pictures I tried to upload.

The BM59 was a select-fire variant of the M1 Garand chambered to .308, built by Beretta in Italy in the late 1950's and early 1960's on WW2 surplus M1 garand tooling.

A HANDFUL of semi-auto and select fire examples were imported by Springfield armory whole in the 60's, and a number of companies brought in parts kits after 1968. Every once in a great while you will see one of these change hands.

In the 1960's a company called Golden State Arms sold a gun called the "Santa Fe/Trooper M59." These guns were built in California from re-welded de-milled Garand receivers modified to take Real BM-59 magazines, and fitted to cut-down 2-[STRIKE]lug[/STRIKE] groove '03 Springfield barrels. These rifles can be easily identified by differences in the gas system that set them apart from genuine BM-59s, Garands, or M14.


"Santa-Fe M59":

Genuine BM-59 from Italy - imported by Springfield Armory:

Note on the real BM-59 the barrel and gas tube/op rod remain parallel. On the "Trooper/M59" there is a visible bend in the op-rod/gas tube.

These rifles were built on re-welded scrap Garand receivers...and have a reputation for rather poor (re)construction.

Look closely in the above pic, you can make out where the receiver was welded. Users on the M14, Garand, and BM59 forums all tend to agree that these rifles should not be fired.

I would love to see some pics of the marking on your specific rifle...if you stumbled across a Springfield-Imported genuine BM59 you have quite a rare bird!!!

EDIT:

After re-reading your post I saw that you are specifically interested in CAI-built rifles. I'm afraid I have no direct experience with the CAI rifles, but I was under the impression they were built from Italian parts kits on in-spec surplus (not re-welded) receivers. Let me get into my books for a minute, I might be able to come up with a few more details for you....

 

[PaulF]

Excellent pics!

So, it appears you have a rifle that was built from a BM59 parts kit on a CAI cast M1 Garand Receiver, as suggested by the .30-06 caliber marking. CAI gets tons of **** online for their cast Garand receivers, but I have ZERO experience with them myself.

It looks more like a Garand hybrid than a true BM59...like a Garand that takes BM59 mags and is chambered to .308 maybe? The gas system is definitely Garand, not BM59.

According to the internet the dimensions of the CAI cast receivers can be far out of spec resulting in poor performance in cycling, feeding, and extracting.

If you are concerned with the quality of the receiver you can have it checked out by a qualified gunsmith, they should be able to tell you if it is in spec. It will be up to you to decide if you want to fire it...some people won't shoot cast receivers - full stop. I don't think a cast receiver -in and of itself- is necessarily a bad thing. I shoot my Springfield M1A all the time, and it has a cast receiver, but I trust the underlying construction. If you have any reason to doubt the quality of your receiver the safest course of action is not to shoot it.

Another option is to replace your receiver with a forged one, either USGI or aftermarket commercial like Fulton Armory or JRA. I have seen stripped USGI receivers at the gunshow as low as a couple hundred bucks...up to thousands. With today's market I would guess prices would be high if you decided to go this route.

Hopefully someone of the forum has a CAI Garand. I'd like to hear from someone who has hands-on experience with a receiver like yours.

I really hope this helps. Welcome to INGO!

Edit to add: That third pic is a bit blurry, but I don't get a re-weld vibe from it. That reinforces my suspicion that your receiver is probably a CAI cast commercial M1 receiver repurposed for this detachable-magazine garand build.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I guess I will show my ignorance. What is a BM59?

Mel Tappan's favorite rifle. His book was my very first gun book. He lavished praise on it in "Survival Guns".

 

[areynolds]

Thanks again Paulf, more great info. The guy I got it from said he shot it plenty but I never have.

Excellent pics!

So, it appears you have a rifle that was built from a BM59 parts kit on a CAI cast M1 Garand Receiver, as suggested by the .30-06 caliber marking. CAI gets tons of **** online for their cast Garand receivers, but I have ZERO experience with them myself.

It looks more like a Garand hybrid than a true BM59...like a Garand that takes BM59 mags and is chambered to .308 maybe? The gas system is definitely Garand, not BM59.

According to the internet the dimensions of the CAI cast receivers can be far out of spec resulting in poor performance in cycling, feeding, and extracting.

If you are concerned with the quality of the receiver you can have it checked out by a qualified gunsmith, they should be able to tell you if it is in spec. It will be up to you to decide if you want to fire it...some people won't shoot cast receivers - full stop. I don't think a cast receiver -in and of itself- is necessarily a bad thing. I shoot my Springfield M1A all the time, and it has a cast receiver, but I trust the underlying construction. If you have any reason to doubt the quality of your receiver the safest course of action is not to shoot it.

Another option is to replace your receiver with a forged one, either USGI or aftermarket commercial like Fulton Armory or JRA. I have seen stripped USGI receivers at the gunshow as low as a couple hundred bucks...up to thousands. With today's market I would guess prices would be high if you decided to go this route.

Hopefully someone of the forum has a CAI Garand. I'd like to hear from someone who has hands-on experience with a receiver like yours.

I really hope this helps. Welcome to INGO!

Edit to add: That third pic is a bit blurry, but I don't get a re-weld vibe from it. That reinforces my suspicion that your receiver is probably a CAI cast commercial M1 receiver repurposed for this detachable-magazine garand build.

 

[BGDave]

Mel Tappan's favorite rifle. His book was my very first gun book. He lavished praise on it in "Survival Guns".

Mel Tappan, a name I haven't heard in a long time. The original survivalist, if I recall correctly he was confined to a wheelchair.