Bolt difficulty with my Mosin Nagant

[n9iui]

I finally got to fire my 1934 Tula 1891/30 this past Sunday. I only put 10 rounds through it; I guess my shoulder isn't as fully recovered from the surgery as I thought it was. I'm still sore.

I've read everything I can find on this rifle before I ever took it out to fire so I anticipated some difficulty with the bolt. I'd cleaned the chamber extensively as recommended, but the bolt became tighter than I expected. I was wishing for a 2x4 or rubber mallet to cycle the bolt!

I fired 5 Brown Bear rounds with the green, lacquered steel case. The other 5 were copper washed with no lacquer. Both behaved about the same.

I saved my "brass" to evaluate it. It looks like the case is swelled about 1/4" from the rim. It is easily seen with the naked eye. I have tried the used brass back into the chamber and it does hang that last 1/4" or so, and the bolt is tight; nearly as bad as it was when I was firing it. There's a photo of one of the shells at:

IMG_1426.jpg picture by n9iui - Photobucket

It's hard to evaluate the chamber. I can't really see into the chamber very good as it is so recessed. Has this same thing happened to anyone else? How did you solve it? It sounds as though the chamber may be eroded about 1/4" in. Is this common, and is there any way to fix it? HELP!

On the other hand, I was really shocked at the power of this thing! My wife and friends were digging the effect the shock wave of the round made in the grass all the way to the target. And the report was a lot lower in pitch than I expected. It sounded more like a small cannon than a rifle! Freakin' awesome!

 

[jblomenberg16]

Mosin's are wonderful rifles, but unfortunately have been known for the sticky bolts.

Do the numbers on the bolt match the receiver? 1/4" is a big difference, but if for some reason headspace wasn't quite right it might explain this.

Numbers matching bolt and receiver doesn't garuntee good headspace, but improves the odds of it being right. Might be worth having a local gunsmith check the chamber and headspace.


My Mosin bolt sticking issues were all remedied by cleaning the chamber of all the nasty built up lacquer.


Good luck!

 

[n9iui]

Mosin's are wonderful rifles, but unfortunately have been known for the sticky bolts.

Do the numbers on the bolt match the receiver? 1/4" is a big difference, but if for some reason headspace wasn't quite right it might explain this.

No, unfortunately Ivan is a mutt. No serial numbers match. The bolt feels fine with unfired ammo, it's just after it is fired that it sticks.

 

[Kingrat]

i believe iraqveteran8888 on youtube has a video about polishing some of the rough tooling marks out of the chamber so it unlocks better, that would be my guess at why its so hard to unlock

and as far as the case swelling it is normal for rifles to leave a little bulge in the case about in that spot, and it usually is pretty visible, im inclined to say that its fine in your rifle but its hard to tell in that picture

 

[singlesix]

Try this article.

Collecting and Shooting the Military Surplus Rifle (2006) - Surplusrifle.com

 

[JML]

Just clean your chamber really good.I used to shoot just brown bear ammo out of mine started to encounter the "sticky bolt".Cleaned it really well then started using military surplus ammo.Got the sticky bolt once again.But the surplus stuff seems to make it tougher to turn the bolt.I switched back to brown bear ammo and now i dont have any issues with the sticky bolt anymore.Each of my mosins prefer a different type of ammo.So just clean it really good a take a couple different brands out and see which the bolt prefers the best.

 

[n9iui]

Try this article.

Collecting and Shooting the Military Surplus Rifle (2006) - Surplusrifle.com

Yeah, I'd read that article even before I went to shoot. I don't know how long and skinny that guy's fingers are, but even my little finger won't reach OR fit into the chamber to check for burrs or anything else! I'm really having a hard time getting a good look at the chamber.

I've done the solvent and brush thing.
I've done the patch wrapped around the brush with compound on it thing.
I guess I'll have to break down and do the gunsmith thing.
I don't want to do that as I'm part Scott and part Indian. I'm too tight to let go of a penny, and if I do, I usually want it back!

 

[indyk]

Yep

Tis the laquered ammo your shooting.

Build up,laquer Melts, dries, thus making your bolt stick

2 guys I know had the same problem Once they cleaned the rifle and bolt RRRREEEAAAl good and traded off the laquered stuff the problems ceased.

Are you shooting alot of rounds in a setting? Rifle getting REAL hot?
let it sit and pick up the 22.

This is just what i have been told and do and I have never had a problem with mine,,, Did i mention it was "Museum GradeBRrrEWWWW HAHAHAHA"

 

[johntheplinker]

I think you're on the right track with giving the chamber a very thorough cleaning first. Use a really good solvent, like mineral spirits or acetone on a tight fitting brush, I use a 20 ga. shotgun brush. Chuck it into a variable speed drill and turn it slowly, being sure not to get the brush into the leade. It may take a few tries but eventually any petrified cosmolene or fouling will come out. You may want to stick a q-tip in the chamber and rub it around and see if there is any roughness. If there is, the q-tip will be frayed and you may be able to see fuzz stuck in the bad spots. If there is roughness or burrs use some very fine emery cloth on a bore brush and hit just the rough spots enough to smooth them out. Go slow and take your time if you do this. All you wat to do is polish the chamber but not change the dimensions. These rifles saw all kinds of use and abuse for who knows how many years, without proper cleaning. This will affect not only the bore but the chamber as well. Not to mention the duress that the war time models were made under, the chamber could have been less than perfect from the factory. I have one like that, had some bad tool marks in the chamber that I polished out and it works just fine now.

Now I'm going to try and dispel a falsehood. Lacquer once its cured does not melt. It will burn, but no melting. What happens with the lacquered cases is that the coating is not as hard as the metal, so when fired the lacquer is forced into any roughness, pits or any other imperfection in the chamber. Because steel cases don't contract near as much as brass cases, the coating remains in contact with the chamber walls and if it has grabbed something on the walls, it becomes hard to extract. I've proved this to many people by taking a lacquer coated case and heating it up to the point the lacquer was starting to discolor and it never melted.

 

[littletommy]

This is an awesome thread!!!This is a problem that most folks who own a Mosin Nagant will eventually have to deal with. There is some great advice here, and the posts concerning polishing the chamber are dead on. I have several dating from 1929 to 43' and have had bolt issues with all of them, especially while shooting the steele cased/laquered stuff, but also a few times with brass. polishing the chamber has all but eliminated the problem every time. All of my 91/30's have all matching numbers, and oddly enough, I have an M44 that has a mismatched bolt, and have not yet had to polish the chamber, or had any significant issues with. Once again, great thread!
And n9iui, congrats on your first Mosin Nagant.

 

[misconfig]

That cosmoline will stick that stuff up, you have to clean them VERY well.

As for the recoil - I'm wondering why people have so much issues with this, I can literally shoot my M38 all day long, IMO the M38 has more recoil than the 91/30.

Hope you get the situation straightened out.

 

[Wabatuckian]

Please check the head space. They sell gauges cheaply. Though Mosin-Nagants tend to have sticky chambers, you really shouldn't have the swelling you describe.

Josh

 

[n9iui]

I like the idea of the Q-tip! I'll try that tomorrow!

It has only had 5 lacquered rounds through it, then 5 rounds of copper washed. It got steadily worse. It (the rifle) sat for about 10 minutes between the first 5 and the last 5. The lacquered rounds don't show sign of any of the lacquer melting. I picked them up right after ejecting (immediately after firing; they didn't sit in the chamber) and they weren't so hot that I couldn't hold them in my hand.

I've used a 20 GA brush with Hoppe's 9 and also with the brush wrapped with a patch coated with automobile polishing compound (I don't have any of the compound mentioned in the one video; haven't been able to find any locally).

I have some acetone at work; I'll "liberate" some on Monday and try it.

Lots of good answers; thanks!

 

[jd4320t]

I agree that this is an awesome thread because I'm having the same trouble with my 91/30. I also agree with misconfig about the recoil. MY M44 hits a lot harder than my 91/30 and both are very managable.

 

[singlesix]

Recoil? What Recoil? Seriously, it isn't bad at all. Hope it works out. Sounds like we may need a InGo Mosin shoot at a local range soon.

 

[littletommy]

Recoil? What Recoil? Seriously, it isn't bad at all. Hope it works out. Sounds like we may need a InGo Mosin shoot at a local range soon.

I would be willing to drive a good distance for that, and I could bring along my son and my brother in law too, cause they both have the MN fever now.

 

[miguel]

I would be willing to drive a good distance for that, and I could bring along my son and my brother in law too, cause they both have the MN fever now.

Here's a video from the last INGO Mosin shoot:

2nd Annual INGO Mosin-Nagant Shoot on Vimeo

 

[johntheplinker]

Hmmmm, yes, a shoot sounds like fun!

 

[n9iui]

I don't think I'll have that much trouble with recoil after my shoulder has healed and I can get some muscle back on it. I have had trouble with it since I tore the biceps tendon in September of 2008. I've been favoring it since then. I finally got surgery on it this May. I have a ways to go before I'm back to normal and at 55 years old I don't heal like I used to. I was taking a chance even firing it this early but I was getting antsy to shoot it.

Does anyone have headspace gauges for the 91/30 so I can check mine? I wouldn't mind buying a set if I thought I'd be getting a whole litter of these puppies but I don't know if I'll be getting more or not. I'd at least like a carbine. I wouldn't pass-up on a nice 91/30 with all matching numbers or a good Finn either since Ivan is such a mutt.

Thanks again for all the help and ideas!

 

[littletommy]

Here's a video from the last INGO Mosin shoot:

2nd Annual INGO Mosin-Nagant Shoot on Vimeo

AHHH, very cool miguel. Somehow, having a Mosin Nagant shoot in freezing temps seems very fitting. Hopefully I will be able to make the next one.