Boogity Boogity Boogity 2020

[thunderchicken]

I don't see restrictor plate (of some form) ever going away. I think to some degree it is a necessary evil. Even with all the safety upgrades to cars and softer walls etc, I don't think they can run these cars at full song on the super speedways and expect the catch fences to keep them from going into the stands.
3500lb cars carry a crap ton of energy when they are moving in the neighborhood of 200mph.
I haven't followed NASCAR as much in recent years as I used to. But, can anyone confirm the change from 400hp- 550hp that ghuns sited above? Asking because that doesn't even sound close to me. When I followed it closely back in the late 90s, they were making close to 800hp (heck back then we made @ 600 with 9.5:1 compression and tiny 390cfm carbs). Given the speeds, car weight etc pretty sure they have considerably more than 550hp.

 

[churchmouse]

I don't see restrictor plate (of some form) ever going away. I think to some degree it is a necessary evil. Even with all the safety upgrades to cars and softer walls etc, I don't think they can run these cars at full song on the super speedways and expect the catch fences to keep them from going into the stands.
3500lb cars carry a crap ton of energy when they are moving in the neighborhood of 200mph.
I haven't followed NASCAR as much in recent years as I used to. But, can anyone confirm the change from 400hp- 550hp that ghuns sited above? Asking because that doesn't even sound close to me. When I followed it closely back in the late 90s, they were making close to 800hp (heck back then we made @ 600 with 9.5:1 compression and tiny 390cfm carbs). Given the speeds, car weight etc pretty sure they have considerably more than 550hp.

The latest plates pulled a crap ton of power from the engines. That's why the cars can not go it alone out of line. But as to the actual numbers I am out of touch.

 

[thunderchicken]

I’d like to see his car with the sheet metal removed with just the roll cage and his cockpit. The strength of it amazes me. Even though it failed, obviously it saved his life.

Did it fail? I don't think so. Sure, it didn't remain in its original shape but it absorbed the impacts and stayed intact while protecting the driver. Sure he was injured but it could be argued the cage did its job. Use your googlefu and you can see pictures of the car after they cut the roof off to get him out.

 

[thunderchicken]

The latest plates pulled a crap ton of power from the engines. That's why the cars can not go it alone out of line. But as to the actual numbers I am out of touch.

I knew the plates killed the hp numbers but like you, I'm out of touch with their current numbers. However, given the current engine technology, I would think it wouldn't be difficult to make close to 1,000hp if they wanted to. I think I heard the engines are now "sealed" and the tuning parameters are limited to keep things in check.
May have to do some research on the numbers

 

[Hatin Since 87]

I would rather they go to no plate of any kind and run a smaller engine.

 

[Bigtanker]

I would rather they go to no plate of any kind and run a smaller engine.

The smaller engines can usually rev higher. IIRC, that's why the C.I. rules are so specific. No bigger, no smaller. At least that's the way it used to be.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

The smaller engines can usually rev higher. IIRC, that's why the C.I. rules are so specific. No bigger, no smaller. At least that's the way it used to be.

True to an extent. They have a gear rule currently to keep the revs down. They’re redlining around 9 grand, but capable of revs over 10 I believe. I would rather them come up with a way to run wide open so it spreads the field out some.

 

[churchmouse]

True to an extent. They have a gear rule currently to keep the revs down. They’re redlining around 9 grand, but capable of revs over 10 I believe. I would rather them come up with a way to run wide open so it spreads the field out some.

Not gonna happen.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

Not gonna happen.

Ya I know and it sucks. All the rule changes they make kills the racing imo, and the ones they should make they never will. Nascar needs to go to a team owner ran sport. Let guys like Stewart, Jr, Childress, Hendrick, Roush, and Penske make the rulebook.

 

[churchmouse]

Ya I know and it sucks. All the rule changes they make kills the racing imo, and the ones they should make they never will. Nascar needs to go to a team owner ran sport. Let guys like Stewart, Jr, Childress, Hendrick, Roush, and Penske make the rulebook.

They used to. Just like USAC back in the day. But when the corporate money filters in they all loose their ****ing minds. Money. Its a business now.

 

[thunderchicken]

True to an extent. They have a gear rule currently to keep the revs down. They’re redlining around 9 grand, but capable of revs over 10 I believe. I would rather them come up with a way to run wide open so it spreads the field out some.

How would that spread the field out? I mean when everyone is getting their engines from a couple sources, I venture to bet that they are all pretty dang equal when it comes to HP. What they are able to do with tuning is where the hp difference might be.
Here is a radical idea tiny spoilers, ditch the front splitter, loose the roof spoiler and go back to no power steering (manual racks only), drop the weight off them fat pigs and lets make racecar drivers out of 'em. Make the crew chief work the suspension to make it hug the track and get through the corners. Then the cream will rise to the top

 

[churchmouse]

How would that spread the field out? I mean when everyone is getting their engines from a couple sources, I venture to bet that they are all pretty dang equal when it comes to HP. What they are able to do with tuning is where the hp difference might be.
Here is a radical idea tiny spoilers, ditch the front splitter, loose the roof spoiler and go back to no power steering (manual racks only), drop the weight off them fat pigs and lets make racecar drivers out of 'em. Make the crew chief work the suspension to make it hug the track and get through the corners. Then the cream will rise to the top

Sounds like the early to late 80's save for the weight. The suspension rules came along to tether them into a pack. The weight is in the cage.

 

[ghuns]

...I haven't followed NASCAR as much in recent years as I used to. But, can anyone confirm the change from 400hp- 550hp that ghuns sited above? Asking because that doesn't even sound close to me. When I followed it closely back in the late 90s, they were making close to 800hp (heck back then we made @ 600 with 9.5:1 compression and tiny 390cfm carbs). Given the speeds, car weight etc pretty sure they have considerably more than 550hp.

The 2019 Rules Package: The Tapered Spacer

The smaller engines can usually rev higher. IIRC, that's why the C.I. rules are so specific. No bigger, no smaller. At least that's the way it used to be.

There didn't used to be a minimum C.I. rule.

Early on in the restrictor plate days, Roush showed up at Daytona with cars that were blowing everybody else away in practice. NASCAR and the other teams were like, WTF?

Upon inspection, their motors were 302s. The smaller engines were much happier with the restrictor plates. NASCAR made the minimum C.I. on the spot and didn't let them race them. Jack was pi$$ed.

 

[churchmouse]

The 2019 Rules Package: The Tapered Spacer



There didn't used to be a minimum C.I. rule.

Early on in the restrictor plate days, Roush showed up at Daytona with cars that were blowing everybody else away in practice. NASCAR and the other teams were like, WTF?

Upon inspection, their motors were 302s. The smaller engines were much happier with the restrictor plates. NASCAR made the minimum C.I. on the spot and didn't let them race them. Jack was pi$$ed.

As he should have been. The governing body stifles ingenuity.

 

[ghuns]

As he should have been. The governing body stifles ingenuity.

The museum at Daytona has a great exhibit dedicated to "ingenuity".

It included Jimmy Spencer's helmet that was poured full of lead. He'd leave it in the car while it was being weighed. Got away with it for awhile before an inspector said, hey Jimmy, you forgot your helmet. He then reached inside to grab it, nearly pulling his shoulder out of socket.

 

[churchmouse]

The museum at Daytona has a great exhibit dedicated to "ingenuity".

It included Jimmy Spencer's helmet that was poured full of lead. He'd leave it in the car while it was being weighed. Got away with it for awhile before an inspector said, hey Jimmy, you forgot your helmet. He then reached inside to grab it, nearly pulling his shoulder out of socket.

Somewhere out there is the 7/8ths scale Chevell that the late great Smokey U tried to slip through the tech line in the 66 race I believe. Last I heard the Edelbrock family had that car.

 

[ATOMonkey]

I'm a simple minded man, but it seems to me that if you want to make the sport popular, you should do what made it popular to begin with.

 

[thunderchicken]

Sounds like the early to late 80's save for the weight. The suspension rules came along to tether them into a pack. The weight is in the cage.

Kinda sorta. Let them have control of the suspension to make the car handle. And for crying out loud lose the heavy I beam truck arm style rear suspension. Let them go to something like a 3 link or ??? A big part of the current weight is the cage. And certainly that is an area that needs to be retained. But they also require all sheet metal to be steel. I think they could keep structural integrity areas steel but allow the use of carbon fiber and other light weight materials in other areas.
A lighter car doesn't need as much hp to go fast and carries less energy to dissipate in a crash and is able to be stopped faster so there could be some benefits. I'm thinking of something a little more in line with ARCA.
I know it is night and day different racing styles but why don't they use any molly in their roll cages? Last I knew it was all .095 ( I think) mild steel MIG welded. Why not allow molly or titanium foruse in support areas of the chassis aside from the actual cage portion? That would take weight off and probably be just as strong. Heck what about adding a funny car style which would add more cage support around the drivers head? But again Im not an engineer, I've just seen a lot and think some ideas from outside nascar could be looked at

 

[thunderchicken]

I'm a simple minded man, but it seems to me that if you want to make the sport popular, you should do what made it popular to begin with.

Yeah but those old cars they were based off of had a whole lot more metal and full frames vs unibody construction modern cars have.

 

[churchmouse]

Yeah but those old cars they were based off of had a whole lot more metal and full frames vs unibody construction modern cars have.

They acted differently and you could see it.