Brake question... dragging caliper?

[Cameramonkey]

OK INGO motorheads... Replaced my brakes on my wifes Town and Country. (3.3l disc/drum system). I noticed that 3 of 4 pads were only about 3/4 worn down. However the inside drivers pad was to the rivets... half what the rest were. My buddy that was helping me (he was a godsend) found the pins that the caliper slides on were a bit dry and stiff, but he greased them up so that they moved freely.

I drove the van today and noticed something... several times in my journey the van seemed to be lacking power... vaguely. like sometimes engine revved like I was going slightly uphill when I wasnt. But nothing you would notice if you werent looking for trouble. And when I got home the left (problem) wheel smelled of hot brake smell. (only about 40 miles on the new pads/rotors.) right one did not. grabbed my IR thermometer and rotor was only about 40 degrees hotter than the right.

So what say the more experienced mechanics here. Sound like a dragging caliper? Time to replace it?

 

[churchmouse]

OK INGO motorheads... Replaced my brakes on my wifes Town and Country. (3.3l disc/drum system). I noticed that 3 of 4 pads were only about 3/4 worn down. However the inside drivers pad was to the rivets... half what the rest were. My buddy that was helping me (he was a godsend) found the pins that the caliper slides on were a bit dry and stiff, but he greased them up so that they moved freely.

I drove the van today and noticed something... several times in my journey the van seemed to be lacking power... vaguely. like sometimes engine revved like I was going slightly uphill when I wasnt. But nothing you would notice if you werent looking for trouble. And when I got home the left (problem) wheel smelled of hot brake smell. (only about 40 miles on the new pads/rotors.) right one did not. grabbed my IR thermometer and rotor was only about 40 degrees hotter than the right.

So what say the more experienced mechanics here. Sound like a dragging caliper? Time to replace it?

Are the rubber hoses in good shape. They can cause this.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Yes. everything looks good. The only two symptoms are one of the two pads on that wheel was excessively worn, and I'm getting that burning brake smell. Only about 80k miles on the van. No pulling to one side, etc.

 

[churchmouse]

Yes. everything looks good. The only two symptoms are one of the two pads on that wheel was excessively worn, and I'm getting that burning brake smell. Only about 80k miles on the van. No pulling to one side, etc.

Piston is most likely sticking. If you do replace it do the hose to.

 

[terrehautian]

I had to replace my front right brake caliper because it was froze. It was pulling my Jeep hard right. Started smoking by the time I got to work. If you replace the caliper and brake lines, do both sides. Also replace rotor on the side that was dragging just in case. If you do it yourself, it is much cheaper and makes better sense. Sounds like your caliper might need replaced (along with rubber hoses). Just don't do the idiot thing like me and forget to look over everything before you try to build pressure back up. Ended up having to take mine to shop to have the system bleed (they didn't charge me anything because I took my Jeep there before).

 

[Doug]

I've been told that if the lining on the inside of the flexible brake lines comes loose, it can hold pressure in the line keeping the pad pressed against the rotor. Replacing the flexible lines is usually a good idea when you do a brake job.

 

[jblomenberg16]

A few thoughts from a shade tree mechanic that has done a bunch of brake jobs:

1) I find that typically aftermarket pads are a little thicker than factory pads, so you really have to make sure you get the piston all the way compressed to make sure you have some clearance. Obviously you got it back together, so pretty good chance you got the piston pushed in far enough.

2) Did you do rotors at the same time? If so, did you clean them really well before driving? Most have an anti-rust coating on them. If you didn't do this that could explain inconsistency side to side.

3) Did you properly season the new pads and rotors? The tip I was taught was after a change, check functionality by rolling backwards in the drive way. Light pressure should stop the vehicle like normal. You may have to "pump" the pedal a few times to get there. After function check, you should take a drive and do 5 hard stops from about 45MPH, without coming to a full stop. This will put a few heat cycles into the new parts as well as help them mate up to each other. You will absolutely smell the hot brake smell.

Not doing that could mean you are getting some of the break in (bad pun I know) during the first time you drove it and hence the smell and the inconsistency side to side.

4) Is your brake fluid topped off? Use only new fluid from a sealed container as it is hydro-scopic (attracts water). If the fluid is too low, you could be putting some air in the system which can cause weird performance.

5) I'd take the system apart and clean and lube the slide pins again. The natural shape of the pads should be enough to push them away from the rotor. Did you put them in the right way? Some are universal, and others are directional. Look for a slide taper on one end of the pads. Some have it on both sides. That taper should be facing the oncoming rotation of the rotor and can help push the pads away from the rotor.

It is easy to put directional pads in wrong. Best advice is to put the wear indicators (that little spring looking tab) back in the same place as the old pads were that you took out.

 

[Rocket]

Did the caliper compress easily? If there were no issues compressing change the hose. If however it took lots of effort to compress it, replace the caliper and hose.

You will have smell with new brake pads. However your large temperature differential is NOT correct and does indicate a hanging up issue.

 

[shawnba67]

Ok here's some of my 15 yrs mopar experience. I've seen things cause single pad wear with some frequency. First check the bracket that holds the pads( if your van is older and the pads just set against the bracket and not in a machined slot skip this step) often there will be rust build up that causes the pad to bind and you can't and won't remove it with a wire brush( I use a cutoff wheel like a sander on this tough stuff. Your new pads should fall out of this bracket if you turn it sideways under just there own wieght. If you had to squeeze them in you've got a problem If you don't have a removable bracket you've got the old style brakes disregard all this.
second thing on the rubber brake hose there is a bracket that hold the rubber hose it's just wrapped around the hose in an open O shape , this bracket also rusts squeezing your brake tube pry it open some with a big screw driver if that fixs it either replace or enjoy the savings till it does it again.

 

[9mmfan]

A few thoughts from a shade tree mechanic that has done a bunch of brake jobs:

1) I find that typically aftermarket pads are a little thicker than factory pads, so you really have to make sure you get the piston all the way compressed to make sure you have some clearance. Obviously you got it back together, so pretty good chance you got the piston pushed in far enough.

2) Did you do rotors at the same time? If so, did you clean them really well before driving? Most have an anti-rust coating on them. If you didn't do this that could explain inconsistency side to side.

3) Did you properly season the new pads and rotors? The tip I was taught was after a change, check functionality by rolling backwards in the drive way. Light pressure should stop the vehicle like normal. You may have to "pump" the pedal a few times to get there. After function check, you should take a drive and do 5 hard stops from about 45MPH, without coming to a full stop. This will put a few heat cycles into the new parts as well as help them mate up to each other. You will absolutely smell the hot brake smell.

Not doing that could mean you are getting some of the break in (bad pun I know) during the first time you drove it and hence the smell and the inconsistency side to side.

4) Is your brake fluid topped off? Use only new fluid from a sealed container as it is hydro-scopic (attracts water). If the fluid is too low, you could be putting some air in the system which can cause weird performance.

5) I'd take the system apart and clean and lube the slide pins again. The natural shape of the pads should be enough to push them away from the rotor. Did you put them in the right way? Some are universal, and others are directional. Look for a slide taper on one end of the pads. Some have it on both sides. That taper should be facing the oncoming rotation of the rotor and can help push the pads away from the rotor.

It is easy to put directional pads in wrong. Best advice is to put the wear indicators (that little spring looking tab) back in the same place as the old pads were that you took out.

This. In my younger years I was ASE certified in brakes. Either a hang up with the calipers sliding on the mount or a sticky calipers piston.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Thanks all. I'll go grab a new caliper and hose tomorrow. Cant do both unfortunately, but one is better than none.

After putting them all 4 together for the first time, I now see the obvious difference.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/59860621/INGO/Temp/2015-02-03 22.27.03.jpg

 

[Cam]

I've been told that if the lining on the inside of the flexible brake lines comes loose, it can hold pressure in the line keeping the pad pressed against the rotor. Replacing the flexible lines is usually a good idea when you do a brake job.

10 years as a GM Master Technician here. This ^^^^ is where I'd start. rubber brake hoses start going bad long before you notice a problem.

 

[churchmouse]

10 years as a GM Master Technician here. This ^^^^ is where I'd start. rubber brake hoses start going bad long before you notice a problem.

Post #2.......

 

[CHCRandy]

I had a similar thing happen with my truck the last snow we had. My right front was red hot. Found out the bearing was bad but also noticed the inner pad was worn out. Got to checking it out and one of the brake guide pins was frozen. Went down and got $10 in new brake pins....that fixed it.

 

[k12lts]

Good move on replacing the hose as well. They fail from the inside, they will look fine from the outside but be dissolved and plugged on the inside not allowing fluid to go back when you release the brake.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Update: so the hose/caliper made a WORLD of difference. But now there is another problem. The back brakes.

I replaced the shoes and drums. At low speed, they are fine. However slowing down from highway speed they make a rumble like nobodys business until you get below 40. They dont really surge the pedal and the van doesnt surge like warped drums. The wife describes it like braking on a rough road.

The hotter they get the worse it gets. If you brake gently, you also dont notice it unless they are hot. (stop and go traffic) You almost never feel it below 40. With both new pads AND drums, it just doesnt make sense.

And I dont think they are dragging because you can turn the wheels by hand with no real resistance, and they dont seem to get hot just driving down the highway. You have to hit the brakes firmly several times to get them to heat up. Each time you use the brakes, the worse it gets until they cool.

Also I can isolate the noise by using the emergency brake at speed and I get it, and the noise is obviously from the rear of the van. So doesnt appear to have anything to do with the fronts.

 

[saleen4971]

so you replaced the shoes and drums - what about the springs? worn/weak springs can do some funky stuff. any time i recommend drum brakes at work, i ALWAYS include a "hardware kit"

i would replace them, make sure your adjusters are lubed, and take it for a drive.

 

[jblomenberg16]

Update: so the hose/caliper made a WORLD of difference. But now there is another problem. The back brakes.

I replaced the shoes and drums. At low speed, they are fine. However slowing down from highway speed they make a rumble like nobodys business until you get below 40. They dont really surge the pedal and the van doesnt surge like warped drums. The wife describes it like braking on a rough road.

The hotter they get the worse it gets. If you brake gently, you also dont notice it unless they are hot. (stop and go traffic) You almost never feel it below 40. With both new pads AND drums, it just doesnt make sense.

And I dont think they are dragging because you can turn the wheels by hand with no real resistance, and they dont seem to get hot just driving down the highway. You have to hit the brakes firmly several times to get them to heat up. Each time you use the brakes, the worse it gets until they cool.

Also I can isolate the noise by using the emergency brake at speed and I get it, and the noise is obviously from the rear of the van. So doesnt appear to have anything to do with the fronts.

Most modern rear drums are self adjusting, in that after setting the e-brake a number of times it takes up the slack and properly adjusts them. None the less, it is always important with shoes and drums to adjust them anyway. Most have a little "star" wheel that manually moves the tensioning cylinder in and out to set the initial clearance of the shoes to the drum.

 

[Cameramonkey]

so you replaced the shoes and drums - what about the springs? worn/weak springs can do some funky stuff. any time i recommend drum brakes at work, i ALWAYS include a "hardware kit"

i would replace them, make sure your adjusters are lubed, and take it for a drive.

Oh they arent weak... trust me. My kids learned a few new words as I repeatedly tried to put the springs back in unsuccessfully.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Most modern rear drums are self adjusting, in that after setting the e-brake a number of times it takes up the slack and properly adjusts them. None the less, it is always important with shoes and drums to adjust them anyway. Most have a little "star" wheel that manually moves the tensioning cylinder in and out to set the initial clearance of the shoes to the drum.

I did get them set by hand, AND gave the Ebrake a workout. Oh, and I thought it might get better as they broke in, but they seem to be getting WORSE the more I drive it.