Brass not sizing properly!

[AGarbers]

I bought a mess of .38 special once-fired brass off Gunbroker. I resized them when I punched the old primer out. When I started seating the bullets, I noticed about one in a dozen the case was too large and the bullet fell right in. So, I dumped the powder out of each one, pulled the primer punch out of my sizing die and ran the 30 or so oversized cases through the resizing die again. When I got back to the final stage, the bullets still just fell in. I have inspected the cases and they do not seem to follow a specific headstamp. It is like the brass has become spring-like and just expands back out on its own.
Any ideas why this is happening?

 

[natdscott]

No, but do you really care? Just toss them. No sense in taking a risk here.

 

[bstewrat3]

I agree with natdscott, just toss the bad ones, but if you want to experiment with getting the cases to possibly work I would try to give the case mouth and the bullet bearing area of the case a quick anneal to see if it helps neck tension.

 

[Old Syko]

Too much left out info to be able to help. Assorted cases are usually OK. What bullets are you trying to use? Hopefully they aren't something intended for 9mm that measure .356 or less since that won't work. What doe's your expander measure and are your dies set up correctly? Over belling the case mouth can be problematic. Not setting up the sizer can be an issue. New dies or something that is actually proven? Do sized cases chamber properly before being expanded? Like I said, there are just too many unanswered questions. I've loaded a truckload of 38s over the years and never had such an issue.

 

[King31]

Are the bullets the proper diameter?

 

[bigedp51]

You can buy a Lee undersized sizing die that reduces the case diameter .002 to .003 more than a standard die,

Lee U Carbide Undersized Sizing Die
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012827841/lee-u-carbide-undersized-sizing-die


Pistol and rifle cases after sizing try to spring back to their fired diameter, and the spring back rate is more pronounced as the case becomes work harden.

Your problem cases were either fired in a larger cylinder or were fired more than once and have a higher spring back rate.

Many competitive hand gun shooter use range pickup brass and use the lee undersize die to size their cases.

I have Lee undersized dies in 9mm and .40 S&W and they work fine with hard to size cases with more spring back.

Bottom line you do not need to get rid of the problem pistol cases if you buy the lee undersize die. And this is one reason you anneal rifle cases to soften the brass and prevent brass spring back after sizing.

 

[AGarbers]

I suspect the cases have been work hardened and need to be annealed. I have checked for split cases by trying to push them into a forcing cone. No cracks were seen. I have reloaded 300 so far using the same dies on all of them so I would think it wouldn't be the dies. The bullets are new from Badman Bullets and I take the bullet and stick in the case next in line and it works fine. I measured the bullets and they appear fine. In measuring the cases, the 20 or so that I'm having issues with are about .008" larger than their brothers that I resized at the same time. I am using a Lyman Orange Crusher press and RCBS carbide dies. There were some cases in the lot that were already de-primed which I just took as good luck on my part, but now I suspect they were problem cases that had been set aside. They came from an estate, so I will never know. I guess I will fire them off, de-prime, and anneal to see what happens.

 

[bigedp51]

I suspect the cases have been work hardened and need to be annealed.

Two things you rarely or never see, annealing pistol cases and trimming pistol cases.

This is why they make Lee Under size dies, you just size the case smaller in diameter to makeup for brass spring back with the harder brass.

The Lee factory crimp die with the carbide ring in the base is a "cheat" for reloaders who do not trim their pistol cases. The longer cases when crimped can bulge below the crimp and this die sizes the case after crimping to make sure the case will chamber.

Undersize Sizing Dies

https://leeprecision.com/undersize-sizing-dies/

Lee Undersized Carbide Sizing Dies are .003" smaller than our standard Carbide Sizing Dies.


Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die

https://leeprecision.com/reloading-dies/hand-gun-dies/lee-carbide-factory-crimp-die/

A carbide sizer inside the Carbide Factory Crimp die post-sizes the cartridge while it is crimped so every round will positively chamber freely with factory like dependability.

 

[Michigan Slim]

Paako?

 

[Sniper 79]

Sounds like they are work hardened. Pitch them. Not worth messing with. I had a similar experience. No more "once fired" brass for me.

 

[natdscott]

Two things you rarely or never see, annealing pistol cases and trimming pistol cases.

Thank you.

It's arguably worth it for SOME rifle brass for SOME purposes. Pistol... ? Not to me.

 

[AGarbers]

Yeah, just scrap this whole thread. I am beginning to think stress about all the writing assignments I have is starting to manifest itself.

I resized and loaded all the brass, and they all worked fine. Then I found more brass that I thought I had already checked for the same issue and found more over-sized brass. I resized and loaded all of them just fine. So, I don't know what the heck I did to get so mixed up. My book manuscript is due by June 1st, so June 2nd, I should be much better...

 

[AmmoManAaron]

Sometimes it's just the simplest things.

"Are you sure you resized them?"

"D'oh!"

Good luck with your manuscript and try not to let the stress get to you (I know, easier said than done).

 

[BluedSteel]

Th;re is no way short of a sophisticated and very expensive lab analysis to prove what I'm going to tell you. Nonetheless I am certain that it is true, even though I have not seen your cases.

Are you ready? Here it is: the cases you are having trouble with are not "once fired". I am 100% certain of this. The seller may have believed they were; but from what you describe they are most likely a random sample of brass someone has picked up off a range, or maybe scrounged from the miscellaneous stuff they had laying around.

Brass [including nickel-plated brass] not only work-hardens from the changes in pressure of being fired it can also have it's chemical content and micro crystalline structure changed by exposure to some cleaning agents. In other words is has a definite and finite working life. It can still look like a perfectly good case and yet be unsuitable for use.

The INGO community, as usual has given you some good and accurate advice. Yes, you can anneal cases yourself. If you choose to do this no one has improved on the simplicity or quality of Dean Grennel's method. You can find it in The ABC's of Reloading. Which is a good book for all reloaders to have. And you can get undersized dies. But I seriously doubt that you'll find either of these worth the time and trouble involved. Not for pistol calibers where brass is relatively cheap and plentiful.

I think natdscott​ has the right idea. Toss 'em and don't look back. Try not to buy anymore cases from that gunbroker vendor either.

 

[AGarbers]

Th;re is no way short of a sophisticated and very expensive lab analysis to prove what I'm going to tell you. Nonetheless I am certain that it is true, even though I have not seen your cases.

Are you ready? Here it is: the cases you are having trouble with are not "once fired". I am 100% certain of this. The seller may have believed they were; but from what you describe they are most likely a random sample of brass someone has picked up off a range, or maybe scrounged from the miscellaneous stuff they had laying around.

Brass [including nickel-plated brass] not only work-hardens from the changes in pressure of being fired it can also have it's chemical content and micro crystalline structure changed by exposure to some cleaning agents. In other words is has a definite and finite working life. It can still look like a perfectly good case and yet be unsuitable for use.

The INGO community, as usual has given you some good and accurate advice. Yes, you can anneal cases yourself. If you choose to do this no one has improved on the simplicity or quality of Dean Grennel's method. You can find it in The ABC's of Reloading. Which is a good book for all reloaders to have. And you can get undersized dies. But I seriously doubt that you'll find either of these worth the time and trouble involved. Not for pistol calibers where brass is relatively cheap and plentiful.

I think natdscott has the right idea. Toss 'em and don't look back. Try not to buy anymore cases from that gunbroker vendor either.

A new sizing die solved the issue. No more shaving of brass. I sent the old die back to RCBS and they replaced it. Problem solved.

 

[Leadeye]

One of the many reasons I have had a set of pin gauges for years.