Breaking Away: The Case for Secession

[Henry]

https://mises.org/events/houston-mises-circle-2015

A good event is coming a the end of the month.

Most likely, the discussions will be posted to their website and made available at no charge to everyone after the event.

I expect the discussions will be interesting.

 

[D-Ric902]

Won't happen
why? Money
states won't do without federal money

 

[Henry]

Some States may well discover the money sent to the Feds would be better managed and deployed at home.

Little to nothing becomes more effective and/ or efficient by inserting the federal government.

 

[dusty88]

Some States may well discover the money sent to the Feds would be better managed and deployed at home.

Little to nothing becomes more effective and/ or efficient by inserting the federal government.

Sure but the political leaders in most states are no more sincere than the ones that go to Washington. They all need each other. The money already being sent to Washington controls the state leaders.

 

[Captain Bligh]

Secede? All that money you contributed to Social Security gone. Poof!

If you're 20 maybe secession looks pretty good. If you're over 50, not so much.

 

[dusty88]

Secede? All that money you contributed to Social Security gone. Poof!

If you're 20 maybe secession looks pretty good. If you're over 50, not so much.

That money is already gone. It's a tax; it's been paid to those who are already retired.

Now if you mean your eligibility may be gone, yeah I suppose. But there is no mathematical case to show that your SS payments are going to be sustainable at least not in line with cost of living. I work on the assumption it isn't going to exist for me.

 

[HoughMade]

Not interested in "Breaking Away" unless Dennis Quaid and Daniel Stern are involved.

 

[Dead Duck]

LINCOLN SUCKS!






Am I too late? What I miss?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

What a list of intellectual heavyweights.

I found a mistake inside a minute of the last Von Mises lecture I listened to. I can only speculate how much they will get wrong for this.

 

[dusty88]

Great list of speakers; too bad it's so far away.

And it's too bad no one listened to Paul 20 years ago regarding the value of the dollar, the government spying, and the foreign intervention.

Yesterday's tinfoil hat is today's headlines. Too bad he's getting so old as well.

 

[dusty88]

What a list of intellectual heavyweights.

I found a mistake inside a minute of the last Von Mises lecture I listened to. I can only speculate how much they will get wrong for this.

You should get help for that affliction. Does it keep you up at night often?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

You should get help for that affliction.

Listening to their stupidity is just a hobby, not an addiction.

 

[dusty88]

Listening to their stupidity is just a hobby, not an addiction.

I was speaking of your nervous reaction to libertarian. It seems to occur whether there are real libertarians about or even if someone uses the word and pretends to be libertarian.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Real Libertarians? Do those exist? There are some that are pure enough?

Regardless, I just hope the conference is recorded. Even if I find their arguments less than intellectually rigorous, I'll listen.

 

[dusty88]

Real Libertarians? Do those exist? There are some that are pure enough?

I suppose a "pure" libertarian would be an anarchist, but anarchists might disagree. As an aside, I gained a more positive view of "anarchy" in recent years after listening to their rationale. I still don't think it's possible to maintain because as soon as a small group of people form an agreement to solve a problem it becomes a "government" of sorts, but it's an interesting concept intellectually speaking.

Regardless, I just hope the conference is recorded. Even if I find their arguments less than intellectually rigorous, I'll listen.

The most intellectual discussions from Mises are typically on currency/monetary discussions, which will probably only be loosely connected here I think. Paul isn't the best speaker, either, which leaves some of his points incomplete in a verbal format.

 

[HoughMade]

Real Libertarians? Do those exist? There are some that are pure enough?

Regardless, I just hope the conference is recorded. Even if I find their arguments less than intellectually rigorous, I'll listen.

I'm waiting for an explanation of why states, or political subdivisions of any kind, can secede from a nation, but individuals can't secede from a state and set up their own little self-governing mini-nation. Or can they? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[dusty88]

I'm waiting for an explanation of why states, or political subdivisions of any kind, can secede from a nation, but individuals can't secede from a state and set up their own little self-governing mini-nation. Or can they? Inquiring minds want to know.

Two completely different issues. IMO, secession of a state has always been legal. States joined voluntarily and should be able to leave voluntarily. In any case, it's a constitutional argument.

Can indviduals secede? you would have to convince the government you are living under to give up control of whatever land mass you deem to be your own sovereign territory. You would of course also be giving up rights to enter the territory surrounding your property.

 

[HoughMade]

State joined voluntarily with the permission of the federal government. Having willingly ceded their sovereignty they get to claim it back without the permission of the federal government, but an individual has no such similar right regarding the state?

See, this is what I want the intellectual powerhouses at the conference to explain to me.

 

[dusty88]

State joined voluntarily with the permission of the federal government. Having willingly ceded their sovereignty

I may make a mistake jumping in here without verifying any sources to refresh my memory but....

where did a state give up their right to self-government? I believe the constitution only grants specific powers to the union.

I think that's the entire debate, most likely. Statists are happy to attribute any power to the central government, whereas the constitution specified only limited powers. The states joined a "union"; they did not give up their self-government.