Breaking: New Executive Actions to Reduce Gun Violence and Make Our Communities

[singlesix]

Totally agree. Their idea of clarifying the meaning of "in the business" offers zero clarity. In other words, stick to FTF cash deals only with people you know, and do the deal between 4 walls and a roof instead of out in an open parking lot, and nobody is the wiser. There would be no real proof you did anything and no way to track it. Same as it is now.

Now my next issue which is a question for lawyers: Does an online advertisement constitute proof of ownership and/or proof of possession of the item being advertised?

Lets say I post a random picture of a Lamborghini for sale on Craigslist for a million bucks. It doesn't prove that I am the owner, nor does it make me a car dealer. Furthermore, there is no proof that I ever owned the car. When someone comes to buy it, I say "sorry, it's already sold." Still no proof that I actually sold anything. At most, I could be accused of lying since I made it all up.

I just don't see how an online advertisement offers proof of anything. Merchants do that crap all the time. Advertise something, and then when you go to buy it, they're out of stock, which means the merchant does not own, nor is in possession of the item they are selling.

That being said, unless you sold directly to, or within sight of an ATF agent, how would they make a gun dealing charge stick based on an online advertisement?

The problem is it cost us little people money and lawyers to prove it.

 

[rvb]

How to be a successful anti-gun President:

1) regurgitate existing law
2) take credit for a 2+ yr effort by ATF to change rules on NFA trusts*
3) grow the Fed gov't by several hundred employees

did I miss anything?

* actually not as bad as we expected since they removed the CLEO certification for both trusts and individuals.

-rvb

 

[reno]

You know over the years we have reacted to teenage pregnancy by introducing sex education in our schools. THen teenage traffic accidents was followed by drivers eduction in our schools.

WHat about mandating firearms safety in schools? I know what am I saying, but? It seems that the cure for the problem is being ignored in a rather purposeful manner.

All of this will be revisited if a democrat is elected this fall.

 

[K_W]

Live: They are literally rolling out gun violence victims at the conferences.

 

[K_W]

Obama cites 3 terrorist attacks on US soil, amoung "mass shootings" as reasons for his gun control actions.

 

[BogWalker]

Oh god. "You can't yell fire in a theater" comparison made by the president. (Lower case "p" is intentional.)

 

[Liberty Sanders]

If you don't think they're already monitoring this forum, you're sadly mistaken.

There is one individual here who does this. I have personal experience with him.

 

[singlesix]

You know over the years we have reacted to teenage pregnancy by introducing sex education in our schools. THen teenage traffic accidents was followed by drivers eduction in our schools.

WHat about mandating firearms safety in schools? I know what am I saying, but? It seems that the cure for the problem is being ignored in a rather purposeful manner.

All of this will be revisited if a democrat is elected this fall.

What is the percentage of shooting are accidental vs. intentional as part of a crime? How is gun safety training going to stop criminals from shooting each other and bystanders?

 

[HoughMade]

How to be a successful anti-gun President:

1) regurgitate existing law
2) take credit for a 2+ yr effort by ATF to change rules on NFA trusts*
3) grow the Fed gov't by several hundred employees

did I miss anything?

* actually not as bad as we expected since they removed the CLEO certification for both trusts and individuals.

-rvb

That's essentially what is going on here. It's not good, but it's not the end of the world either.

As to the "in the business" froo frah, this doesn't change the definition of what it means, it just enhances enforcement. We all know people or have seen people who are conducting business under the guise of being a "collector" or just a guy with a lot of guns. If you are buying guns regularly and hours or days later they appear for sale, and this is repeated time and time again...you're treading on thin ice now and if there are more agents looking for that, well...

 

[rvb]

That's essentially what is going on here. It's not good, but it's not the end of the world either.

As to the "in the business" froo frah, this doesn't change the definition of what it means, it just enhances enforcement. We all know people or have seen people who are conducting business under the guise of being a "collector" or just a guy with a lot of guns. If you are buying guns regularly and hours or days later they appear for sale, and this is repeated time and time again...you're treading on thin ice now and if there are more agents looking for that, well...

From an administration that has done very little enforcement...
Is it more scare tactics than anything? "We are adding a few hundred employees to surf the ingo classifieds and maybe go to gun shows to look for unlicensed dealers." Will the # of indictments increase or are they happy just hiring professional web surfers? Only time will tell.... what if congress doesn't fund it?

-rvb

 

[singlesix]

Paul Ryan's statement, shot across the bow, and factual.

 

[halfmileharry]

So of the 500 homicide victims in Chicago, how many wouldn't be dead today if this crap would've been in place?

You're missing the whole message on this. HE does NOT want the criminals shot.

 

[iauffenberg]

even tough it does not seem to bad we can not just stay silent and take it we need to push back no matter how small or not that bad it seems

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

There is one individual here who does this. I have personal experience with him.

Ever been to a hacker convention? Spotting and "outing" the Federales is part of the proceedings.

If you have direct knowledge that someone is here trying to entrap people - time to out them...

 

[traderdan]

This, my friends is foreshadowing...You will see the cessation of sales between individuals, as time goes on. If we tolerate the creation of law by the executive branch...(if we continue to...) Incrementally, your Second Amendment rights shall disappear. Your Beloved leader lied to you once more...He stated that more than 30,000 people are killed by guns each year in our country. If this be the case...the criminal is not at fault. The gun is the culprit. Illiteracy is a dangerous condition, and most of the general population of the U.S.A lives pretty close to it...

 

[calcot7]

even tough it does not seem to bad we can not just stay silent and take it we need to push back no matter how small or not that bad it seems

It seems pretty bad to me. Another step.....leap closer to the end of gun ownership by the citizens. We need to fight this all the way. It is time to contact our representatives again and voice our opinions, then contact them again.

 

[JKEdge]

I want to know what websites I can illegally buy firearms? Facebook?

 

[traderdan]

I want to know what websites I can illegally buy firearms? Facebook?

Ingo, silly...You may be buying an illegal gun from an undesirable individual..(pending ATF definition)

 

[JKEdge]

Ah...I was thinking of a legitimate business site

 

[rvb]

This, my friends is foreshadowing...You will see the cessation of sales between individuals, as time goes on. If we tolerate the creation of law by the executive branch...(if we continue to...) Incrementally, your Second Amendment rights shall disappear.

I 100% agree any erosion of rights is horrible, and I believe most gun laws on the book are unconstitutional. But in this case, all he did is regurgitate existing law. Word for word. The definition of a dealer as someone "in the business" has been law since 1968. The funny thing is [some] gun owners have been asking for a definition for that ever since. I bet you can find threads here on ingo asking that exact question. And we still don't have a definition, other that we know they are hiring more govt employees to hunt down unlicensed people "in the business." I don't agree with the law, but there's nothing new here. Have people been "pushing the limit" under the law? probably. Those people should be the ones thinking this will affect them. If tomorrow I want to sell a gun privately, I will just as I always have. I've sold 5 in 15 yrs that I recall and I'm certainly not in the business; that part of the EA doesn't affect me. Fed Prosecutors have just as much opportunity to abuse this EA as they have had under the GCA.

The response to this should be pointing and laughing, not gnashing of teeth. Expose his weakness and how this EA is only bolstering enforcement of laws already on the books (as many gun-owners and NRA clamor for... be careful what you ask for, you just might get it) from an administration with a dismal record of prosecuting violations of these existing laws. GOP response could be tweaks in the code to make it ever simpler to get an FFL or create a "hobby FFL" for folks w/ other day jobs.

The other part of this, the NFA trust part, was going to happen anyway.

If we want this encroachment of freedom gone, we should look for candidates w/ the balls to say GCA should be repealed, as well as the NFA. The slippery slope was created in '34 and steepened in '68.

my 2c.

-rvb