BUG out---WAY out

[jmiller676]

I have been putting together a scenario lately and wondered what everyone thought. Given our current economic situation the political landscape and the overall mentality of the current population of the US. It seems that you can make a strong case for America falling. With that being said is it reasonable to look outside the US for a safe haven? I was thinking Puerto Rico. You have a strong tourist spot with a lot of money moving through. It also has the largest infrastructure in the Caribbean. Has anyone else thought long term BUG out, out side of the country?

 

[WETSU]

Yes. Preps in place for that for the past 10 years. My family would be sent abroad. I would stay behind and help fix the country.

This requires a much higher level of thinking, planning and commitment. You need to do the advance work, make and maintain connections and back up connections for people who can get you and or your people out of the country and you need to be able to dedicate considerable resources (cash and gold) to achieving those goals.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

I was going to say: That's not just something that you could up and do on a whim.

Keep in mind that if/when the USA "falls", it's taking a good chunk of the western financial markets with it. Many many many places are in dire financial straits already. A few have already tipped. (hello, Greece...)

Choose your spot carefully - don't count on airlines to get you where you need to go.

 

[spectre327]

Canada is honestly the best long term bug out as regardless of border lines, most people can slip through the far north eastern and western lines.

If the Americas fall, there will be a tremendous trust collapse in the surrounding countries as other nation states sift through the massive influx of emigrants. Puerto Rico, like some others in the vicinity will be overpopulated very quickly and their own border control will look at that.

 

[WETSU]

I would not go to PR unless I had a long term experience with that nation and relationships/contacts on the ground. It is a poor country. The US collapsing would not make it better. I'd stay in the US over going to PR.

 

[jmiller676]

Canada is honestly the best long term bug out as regardless of border lines, most people can slip through the far north eastern and western lines.

If the Americas fall, there will be a tremendous trust collapse in the surrounding countries as other nation states sift through the massive influx of emigrants. Puerto Rico, like some others in the vicinity will be overpopulated very quickly and their own border control will look at that.

You make a good point. I was trying to look at ease of living as well. However, there is plenty of resources in Canada to survive.

 

[Dragon]

I have been putting together a scenario lately and wondered what everyone thought. Given our current economic situation the political landscape and the overall mentality of the current population of the US. It seems that you can make a strong case for America falling. With that being said is it reasonable to look outside the US for a safe haven? I was thinking Puerto Rico. You have a strong tourist spot with a lot of money moving through. It also has the largest infrastructure in the Caribbean. Has anyone else thought long term BUG out, out side of the country?

How much of the tourism trade in PR comes from the United States? An island nation that is not self-sufficient is not a long-term plan IMO. Their economy will collapse if ours does.

 

[cosermann]

...I was thinking Puerto Rico. ...

Puerto Rico is an interesting choice. Here are a few factors to consider:

• Speak Spanish? One of 2 official languages, it's the primary language (even though lots of people speak English too).
• Lots of people in PR looking for handouts from the U.S. Plan on having "neighbors" being unprepared, and/or having a less than self-sufficient mentality.
• Since the U.S. essentially supports PR, how might PR be affected if the U.S. tanks?
• Natural hazards - PR is subject to hurricanes and is also located on the border of tectonic plates increasing the probability of seismic events.
• Tourism may not fair well during a global downturn.
• Food - Food imports to Puerto Rico have risen pretty steadily for several decades. Over 80% of the food is imported (some say as high as 90%). Any disruptions of this would have a significant impact.

 

[teddy12b]

Yes I have thought about it, but it's not going to be my first choice. If the SHTF the borders will either be a cake walk or a death trap without much in the middle. Every so often I have gone on hunting trips in remote areas. While there and traveling to and from there I look for areas that are spilling over with natural resources but have few people around. Lot of places in Canada like that. Every hour you get farther north of the border your options become more and more plentfiul. Firewood for the winter would be a huge concern, but look to areas where's there's plenty of nearby lakes. If I ever had to bug out internationally I don't think I'd anticipate coming back.

This all gets into the larger debate that has to do with if you think the country even can be saved.

 

[jmiller676]

Yes I have thought about it, but it's not going to be my first choice. Every so often I have gone on hunting trips in remote areas. While there and traveling to and from there I look for areas that are spilling over with natural resources but have few people around. Lot of places in Canada like that. Every hour you get farther north of the border your options become more and more plentfiul. Firewood for the winter would be a huge concern, but look to areas where's there's plenty of nearby lakes. If I ever had to bug out internationally I don't think I'd anticipate coming back.

That is what I was thinking, a lot of good points about PR were made. It seems that the best place to BUG out to would be as far from civilization as possible. It is either bug out or sit tight.

 

[The Commissioner]

I've spent two years in Iraq and will have two years in Afghanistan by November. These countries are true SHTF scenarios that I cannot imagine ever experiencing in the USA. Nevertheless, if a foreign military ever occupies the US like we've done over here, I will do the exact same thing that any Iraqi or Afghan of means did: bug out to a neighboring country and wait for the security to improve. Even in a society that's seen a massive breakdown of the rule of law, there is plenty of goods in the markets (courtesy of neighboring countries) and life goes on. What isn't solved is the crime that results from the weak rule of law.

Think of it like New Orleans. The storm is forecast and there is plenty of time to leave. Either evacuate to where it is safe or stay and live with the consequences. The people in my experience overseas who've faced that choice and can afford it, at least send their families to a safer place.

 

[spectre327]

I've spent two years in Iraq and will have two years in Afghanistan by November. These countries are true SHTF scenarios that I cannot imagine ever experiencing in the USA. Nevertheless, if a foreign military ever occupies the US like we've done over here, I will do the exact same thing that any Iraqi or Afghan of means did: bug out to a neighboring country and wait for the security to improve. Even in a society that's seen a massive breakdown of the rule of law, there is plenty of goods in the markets (courtesy of neighboring countries) and life goes on. What isn't solved is the crime that results from the weak rule of law.

Think of it like New Orleans. The storm is forecast and there is plenty of time to leave. Either evacuate to where it is safe or stay and live with the consequences. The people in my experience overseas who've faced that choice and can afford it, at least send their families to a safer place.

Though I have not had such experiences, This is exactly what I base my SHTF scenarios off because of how recent it has been.

The really sad part is, if we actually meet up with a force as tenacious as our own.......we have GOT to make sure our routes and backups are carefully planned. Our forces have the means to investigate to the N'th degree any traces of refute.

 

[PapaScout]

I love this country and if it goes DITD - so will I.

 

[jmiller676]

I love this country and if it goes DITD - so will I.

I love this country too, but my priorities are God, family, country...in that order.

 

[teddy12b]

I love this country too, but my priorities are God, family, country...in that order.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

The country you love is a place where people used to be free and the masses would at least attempt to understand and control their government. Focusing on all this dirt as your "country" is much like spending too much time with lasers and other junk bolted to your gun. People are guilty of looking at the gear and not the mindset. If there were a Gault's Gulch out there, I'd be packing my family up right now.

 

[PapaScout]

I couldn't have said it better myself.

The country you love is a place where people used to be free and the masses would at least attempt to understand and control their government. Focusing on all this dirt as your "country" is much like spending too much time with lasers and other junk bolted to your gun. People are guilty of looking at the gear and not the mindset. If there were a Gault's Gulch out there, I'd be packing my family up right now.

I agree to a certain extent - my love of this country has nothing to do with the dirt and everything to do with wanting it restored to past glory.

Galt's Gulch was still here in the US and used to rebuild the new country after everything fell apart. Perhaps we're saying the same thing here just from different perspectives.

 

[teddy12b]

I agree to a certain extent - my love of this country has nothing to do with the dirt and everything to do with wanting it restored to past glory.

Galt's Gulch was still here in the US and used to rebuild the new country after everything fell apart. Perhaps we're saying the same thing here just from different perspectives.

I get what you're saying and I think we're pretty much aligned. I hope people aren't misunderstanding me here. I have zero plans to ever leave the US for more than a week long hunting trip, but on those hunting trips I look for places that a guy could take his family to as refugees if needed.

 

[TiminMishawaka]

I love this country too, but my priorities are God, family, country...in that order.

Agree completely.

I'm a flag waving Bible thumper but even I have to admit that I've read Revelation and I don't see the US mentioned there as best I can tell. The US is amazing, but I have to be honest with myself that it's not eternal.

 

[churchmouse]

Have you ever been there. I have. There are places sane people do not go. If the USA falls there will be nothing on that island nation but insanity.

IMHO....bad idea.

 

[Scarecrow]

My plan "F" is moving to Belize and living with the Mennonites.