Build VS Buying

[Gabriel]

Isn't the old AR15 saying "buy your 1st, build the rest "?

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I did it backwards and probably built my first half dozen back in the 90's during the ban. Those are all gone. Now I just buy factory rifles. That being said, I do want a NM 20" rifle and may have to build it... plus I kind of want a Brownells BRN-180.

 

[BigRed3588]

Wait I thought we were talking about AR’s?

I feel like there’s a joke here that’s going over my head lol.

It sounded like the OP may be considering his first build and I wanted to give him an idea of the hidden costs that pop up. At this point, I probably could’ve bought another rifle with the money I’ve spent on tools designed for the sole purpose of working on ARs.

 

[BigRed3588]

I did it backwards and probably built my first half dozen back in the 90's during the ban. Those are all gone. Now I just buy factory rifles. That being said, I do want a NM 20" rifle and may have to build it... plus I kind of want a Brownells BRN-180.

If you get the BRN-180, I hope you have a better experience than I did with the last Brownells product I purchased. They burnt their bridge with me on that transaction and the way it was handled by customer service.

 

[Expat]

One thing that we have heard from multiple trainers is that if there is an AR that won't run in a carbine class, it is almost always someone's home build.

 

[bwframe]

One thing that we have heard from multiple trainers is that if there is an AR that won't run in a carbine class, it is almost always someone's home build.

I could be mistaken, but I belive that's not as prevalent as it once was?

I think you could still throw a random bunch of budget parts at a gun and still end up with a lemon.

Isn't your average builder these days using name brand better grade parts that have sold enough copies to be better proven?

Carbine classes and competition has always been the acid test for a lot of "always been 100% reliable" guns. I have seen poor results out of both builds and factory guns, from Palmetto to JP Rifles.

 

[DadSmith]

If you buy a nice AR I think you can't go wrong with a LaRue. They aren't the most expensive nor the least. I'd take a LaRue to battle any time. Of course those days are past for me. So a budget AR that can run at least 2000rds without a failure, and run 500+ rds in one day is plenty good for me.

https://www.larue.com/category/rifles/obr-5-56/

https://www.larue.com/category/rifles/predatar-5-56/

https://www.larue.com/category/rifles/predatobr-5-56/

 

[DadSmith]

I feel like there’s a joke here that’s going over my head lol.

It sounded like the OP may be considering his first build and I wanted to give him an idea of the hidden costs that pop up. At this point, I probably could’ve bought another rifle with the money I’ve spent on tools designed for the sole purpose of working on ARs.

I know exactly how that goes. I started with Aero Precision M5 308 upper and lower, and a 16" Ballistics Advantage barrel. Which I bought on sale. Then I started adding the other parts accessories etc to it. Wasn't paying attention because I was buying different parts I wanted over a year. Well the other day I decided to add up what I have in it and it's north of 2k.
I could have bought a LaRue on sale for a few hundred more.
It runs fine its nice, and what I wanted. It will be a great hand down later on life.

 

[gregkl]

Depends on the factory that built it and the DIY builder that did their own.

I'd put my builds against any factory rifle that comes in at similar price to what I had in mine. But I won't stand here and say mine is as good as a top tier $3K rifle.

 

[BigRed3588]

I know exactly how that goes. I started with Aero Precision M5 308 upper and lower, and a 16" Ballistics Advantage barrel. Which I bought on sale. Then I started adding the other parts accessories etc to it. Wasn't paying attention because I was buying different parts I wanted over a year. Well the other day I decided to add up what I have in it and it's north of 2k.
I could have bought a LaRue on sale for a few hundred more.
It runs fine its nice, and what I wanted. It will be a great hand down later on life.

My first was was also an Aero lol. I worked up a parts list and bought everything on Memorial Day so I came away with some great deals and stayed under budget.

My last build (well, 2 technically) turned out exactly like your first though. I had a spare LMT MARS Ambi lower and decided on a CMT billet upper with no forward assist. Turns out the MARS only likes milspec uppers and locks the bcg in the buffer tube with anything else (that I’ve tried at least). I ended up having to assemble a different lower for the CMT upper and a different upper for the MARS. I used spare parts from other builds where I could, but the project went from assembling a moderately priced upper to a money pit.

 

[indyjohn]

I did it backwards and probably built my first half dozen back in the 90's during the ban. Those are all gone. Now I just buy factory rifles. That being said, I do want a NM 20" rifle and may have to build it... plus I kind of want a Brownells BRN-180.

My first was an Armalite M15-A2 NM bought in 2000 when Armalite still sold NM rifles. The OG picked up a Windham from Bradis back when Mark Welter worked there. Both are solid performing tools. Everything since has been home grown (resisting the urge to post pics... for the umpteenth time) including 2 INGO lowers.

 

[ditcherman]

I feel like there’s a joke here that’s going over my head lol.

It sounded like the OP may be considering his first build and I wanted to give him an idea of the hidden costs that pop up. At this point, I probably could’ve bought another rifle with the money I’ve spent on tools designed for the sole purpose of working on ARs.

There has been just a bit of conversation on here about headspacing an AR, much more other places. The bottom line IMO is that there’s no need to headspace an AR, if it runs it’s correct and if it doesn’t you can’t do anything about it except change the barrel/bolt combination.

That was the basis of my poor joke.

Definitely open to other opinions, but “because that’s how it’s done” doesn’t count.

I’ll edit to add I built my first with just regular punches, no roll pin punches or AR wrench. I got close enough guessing 50ft lbs because the gun is still running. (Using BCM KMR handguard so that wrench was supplied) My only specialty tools were related to the mill, and roll pin punches and an AR wrench now certainly make it easier, if you’re a handy guy you can figure it all out with a pair of pliers.

 

[indyjohn]

There has been just a bit of conversation on here about headspacing an AR, much more other places. The bottom line IMO is that there’s no need to headspace an AR, if it runs it’s correct and if it doesn’t you can’t do anything about it except change the barrel/bolt combination.

That was the basis of my poor joke.

Definitely open to other opinions, but “because that’s how it’s done” doesn’t count.

I’ll edit to add I built my first with just regular punches, no roll pin punches or AR wrench. I got close enough guessing 50ft lbs because the gun is still running. (Using BCM KMR handguard so that wrench was supplied) My only specialty tools were related to the mill, and roll pin punches and an AR wrench now certainly make it easier, if you’re a handy guy you can figure it all out with a pair of pliers.

View attachment 206626

I don't own a headspace gauge for an AR. None of my rifles have ever blown up.

 

[BIGE7.62]

I don't own a headspace gauge for an AR. None of my rifles have ever blown up.

Mil-spec
If it doesn't go into battery use the forward assist. Fk go/no-go /field ✌ it'll run

 

[bwframe]

I threw away my headspace gauge after JeepHammer got banned.

 

[analogwars]

Can it? Sure.
Will it be (vs. mid- to upper- tier ARs)? Almost certainly not.

Do I ever plan to push the one I built hard enough to really know? Not really.

Makes sense, thanks!

 

[edporch]

Can an AR self build be as good as a factory build?

I have as much faith in the AR type rifles I've built as I do in my factory built ones going back to the late 1980's green label Colt pre-ban HBAR I bought new.

The ones I've built I use quality parts, stick to basics, and nothing way out.

 

[BigRed3588]

There has been just a bit of conversation on here about headspacing an AR, much more other places. The bottom line IMO is that there’s no need to headspace an AR, if it runs it’s correct and if it doesn’t you can’t do anything about it except change the barrel/bolt combination.

That was the basis of my poor joke.

Definitely open to other opinions, but “because that’s how it’s done” doesn’t count.

I’ll edit to add I built my first with just regular punches, no roll pin punches or AR wrench. I got close enough guessing 50ft lbs because the gun is still running. (Using BCM KMR handguard so that wrench was supplied) My only specialty tools were related to the mill, and roll pin punches and an AR wrench now certainly make it easier, if you’re a handy guy you can figure it all out with a pair of pliers.

View attachment 206626

Ahh ok, I thought that might be what you were referring to. I don’t have the expertise to speak on it from a technical standpoint, but the fact that it’s up for debate is enough for me to err on the side of caution. I’d rather spend $70 for peace of mind than take a chance and find out the hard way I was wrong.

I used regular punches and improvised methods on my first, and would agree most of the project can be completed without special equipment. I’m just kind of anal and didn’t like having to worry about damaging parts when there are tools that can alleviate those worries. I don’t mind putting wear on my guns after they’re built, but it irritates the hell out of me to mar the gun before I even fire it.

 

[ditcherman]

Ahh ok, I thought that might be what you were referring to. I don’t have the expertise to speak on it from a technical standpoint, but the fact that it’s up for debate is enough for me to err on the side of caution. I’d rather spend $70 for peace of mind than take a chance and find out the hard way I was wrong.

I used regular punches and improvised methods on my first, and would agree most of the project can be completed without special equipment. I’m just kind of anal and didn’t like having to worry about damaging parts when there are tools that can alleviate those worries. I don’t mind putting wear on my guns after they’re built, but it irritates the hell out of me to mar the gun before I even fire it.

Well when you figure out how to headspace an AR do a write up, many might be interested. I don’t think there’s any peace of mind to be had though. It just doesn’t exist IMO.
Of course, I know nothing of building a bolt action and actually headspacing a conventional rifle.

 

[BigRed3588]

Well when you figure out how to headspace an AR do a write up, many might be interested. I don’t think there’s any peace of mind to be had though. It just doesn’t exist IMO.
Of course, I know nothing of building a bolt action and actually headspacing a conventional rifle.

I’m not saying you can fix the headspace on an AR, I’m saying I’d rather identify the problem and return the product than risk damaging my rifle on the assumption the parts were manufactured properly. Hell, the last part I bought was a $200 lightweight BCG from Fail Zero and I had to tighten and re-stake the gas key after two rounds.

 

[DadSmith]

Well…I hadn’t planned to assemble the 5.56 upper for my SBR host just yet but now I have to find out if this thing works…

There is another one that is molded to hold the gas block in a vise. I tried to find that one but my Google fu isn't working.
I'm sure someone with ingenuity and a 3d printer could make something like that.

I did find these which looks like it might be a better tool.

GPT (Gas tube Pin Tool)-GPT

www.forwardcontrolsdesign.com

AR Low Profile Gas Block & Gas Tube Install Tool | On Mission Arms Gear

Ever wish you had a third hand while trying to install a gas tube roll pin? Now you can! Check out the product in action. Positively reviewed by School of the American Rifle and 200+ eBay reviews. Ah! A thing of excellence! A must have for any novice to professional gunsmith! A true...

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