Buying actual precious metals and their funds

[teddy12b]

I'm slowly coming around to the idea that part of being prepared is having some precious metals around (besides copper plated lead in a brass case). So I got thinking and bought just enough silver to be able to say that I've actually got some.

Now another part of being prepared is preparing for the future is things don't go to heck in a handbasket also. I'm curious if anyone here is buying stocks, mutual funds, index funds or any other kind of non-physical investment in precious metals.

 

[rockhopper46038]

I have some diversification in precious and strategic metals through mutual funds and ETFs. Frankly it is a financial hedge not a guard against SHTF scenarios, as the piece of paper wouldn't do me much good. I'm not convinced yet that I want blocks of gold stored in my basement, but a prudent investor may want a little exposure in their portfolio

 

[ATOMonkey]

I don't have enough money to buy actual metal.

I am buying food right now. Maybe once I get enough food I'll buy some metal.

5% of gross goes into mutual funds (100% company match) as a hedge against SHTF not happening. If we still use the dollar 30 years from now, I'd like to have some. Our 401k doesn't offer indexed funds...hhhhmmm....might have to check that. Anyway, Fidelity does a pretty darn good job managing their funds.

That reminds me, I need to call the bank about my mortgage.

 

[jeremy]

I am stocking a Library...

Knowledge will get a lot farther than metals in the third world or lower...

 

[E5RANGER375]

I don't have enough money to buy actual metal.

I am buying food right now. Maybe once I get enough food I'll buy some metal.

5% of gross goes into mutual funds (100% company match) as a hedge against SHTF not happening. If we still use the dollar 30 years from now, I'd like to have some. Our 401k doesn't offer indexed funds...hhhhmmm....might have to check that. Anyway, Fidelity does a pretty darn good job managing their funds.

That reminds me, I need to call the bank about my mortgage.

I am stocking a Library...

Knowledge will get a lot farther than metals in the third world or lower...

both of these are the right ideas first!

I also recommend saving money. heres a recomendation. the U.S. nickel (yes 5 cents) is worth more for its metal content than its face value. If you bought $10k worth of nickles then you would have $1200 worth of metal if SHTF that would keep going up in value, but never fall below the face value of the coin as long as the govt lasts. you could take from it at any time if something came up and you needed cash. you cant beat a $2000 instant profit.

you dont need to even spend $10k, im just using that as an example to show the profit.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

Maybe one of you can explain the rational behind buying gold / silver to me .

According to FerFal , when he experienced the Argentine meltdown , precious metals weren't worth near the price you paid for them after the economy craps out .

Yes they will still have value but how will the average person know what their getting ? Is it really 24K .999 pure gold ? How will you know ?

An ounce of gold is going for what $1,400 now ? How do you expect to get something in trade worth that much after an economic nose dive ?

 

[MinuteMan47]

I am stocking a Library...

Knowledge will get a lot farther than metals in the third world or lower...

This is an excellent idea.

 

[jeremy]

both of these are the right ideas first!

I also recommend saving money. heres a recomendation. the U.S. nickel (yes 5 cents) is worth more for its metal content than its face value. If you bought $10k worth of nickles then you would have $1200 worth of metal if SHTF that would keep going up in value, but never fall below the face value of the coin as long as the govt lasts. you could take from it at any time if something came up and you needed cash. you cant beat a $2000 instant profit.

you dont need to even spend $10k, im just using that as an example to show the profit.

If I recall correctly don't nickels fit into a 12 gauge shell, or am I thinking of dimes?!

 

[E5RANGER375]

Maybe one of you can explain the rational behind buying gold / silver to me .

According to FerFal , when he experienced the Argentine meltdown , precious metals weren't worth near the price you paid for them after the economy craps out .

Yes they will still have value but how will the average person know what their getting ? Is it really 24K .999 pure gold ? How will you know ?

An ounce of gold is going for what $1,400 now ? How do you expect to get something in trade worth that much after an economic nose dive ?

after the dust settles then thats when precious metals will have their value. when people are starving or thirsty while the **** is still hitting the fan, then a loaf of bread might cost you what an ounce of gold cost you now. seriously. the metals will have value down the road. food, clean water, reliable and safe shelter, medicine, basic first aid knowledge and supplies, sanitary items, ammo, guns, clothing, etc, will be VERY valuable always after a disaster happens. as well as first, the knowledge to properly use things and accomplish tasks that people take for granted now. people would seriously be surprised at the LARGE number of people who cant even make a fire without a lighter or matches. that right there could be your death depending on what situation you are in and what other skills you have. or how about just the knowledge to know not to stick your face in the local creek and start drinking? that could also kill you under the right circumstances. it all adds up.

 

[sbcman]

I don't have any stocks in metals or mines, although it's probably not a bad idea to invest in some. I have moved some physical silver recently. Long ago I decided if I could double my money on metal I would move it, and put those funds into tangible things to keep us better prepared.

To be entirely honest, I don't know what, if any, benefit it might have in a collapse. Likewise, I might really kick myself for moving some metal now during a collapse. I just don't know. What I do know is that on more than one occassion a gold coin here and there have got people out of some tight places, so it's good to keep a little around.

 

[bigus_D]

Maybe one of you can explain the rational behind buying gold / silver to me .

...

An ounce of gold is going for what $1,400 now ? How do you expect to get something in trade worth that much after an economic nose dive ?

I don't own gold or silver (physically in my possession, investment funds only), but I believe the logic is that 1,400 of precious metal will be worth more than $1,400 of worthless green paper if the system collapses. (of course, my investment funds won't be worth much when it falls apart either)

I do have silver bullion on my mind. But I haven't yet purchased any. Anybody have a solid local source?

Anyhow right now, I believe $1,400 of food or bullets, or almost any staple is more appropriate for my situation. Just last week we went to make some chili, and we didn't have ANY FREAKIN BEANS! WTF!?!

 

[ThrottleJockey]

While I think metals are a good hedge against economic collapse they will do nothing to guard against societal collapse. Actual hands on PMs (not funds or paper) are a great way protect your retirement fund, not a good strategy for barter or trade in a TEOTWAWKI scenario. In addition to e5rangers comment about nickels, pre 1981 pennies are good too since the copper weight is more that a cent. Actually people have been buying bags of pennies from banks and sorting them out to sell for scrap for several years now....1981 and newer are not copper though, they are copper plated zinc and will melt with a bic lighter.


BTW, your copper jacketed lead wont do much good without a fair supply of blued steel

 

[ZS84]

While I think metals are a good hedge against economic collapse they will do nothing to guard against societal collapse. Actual hands on PMs (not funds or paper) are a great way protect your retirement fund, not a good strategy for barter or trade in a TEOTWAWKI scenario. In addition to e5rangers comment about nickels, pre 1981 pennies are good too since the copper weight is more that a cent. Actually people have been buying bags of pennies from banks and sorting them out to sell for scrap for several years now....1981 and newer are not copper though, they are copper plated zinc and will melt with a bic lighter.


BTW, your copper jacketed lead wont do much good without a fair supply of blued steel

MMMMM blued steel... It makes my mouth water

 

[CarmelHP]

While I think metals are a good hedge against economic collapse they will do nothing to guard against societal collapse. Actual hands on PMs (not funds or paper) are a great way protect your retirement fund, not a good strategy for barter or trade in a TEOTWAWKI scenario. In addition to e5rangers comment about nickels, pre 1981 pennies are good too since the copper weight is more that a cent. Actually people have been buying bags of pennies from banks and sorting them out to sell for scrap for several years now....1981 and newer are not copper though, they are copper plated zinc and will melt with a bic lighter.


BTW, your copper jacketed lead wont do much good without a fair supply of blued steel

Melting cents and nickels for scrap is illegal.

New rules outlaw melting pennies, nickels for profit - USATODAY.com

 

[MinuteMan47]

Melting cents and nickels for scrap is illegal.

New rules outlaw melting pennies, nickels for profit - USATODAY.com

Do you have an updated link?

I could have swore I heard someone telling me that if you have (184) Pre-1982 pennies, then you would have 1 lb of copper, and that 1 lb of copper was worth 4x the face value.

 

[Bunnykid68]

Pennies 1981 and back are worth more than twice their face value in copper.

 

[rockhopper46038]

Melting cents and nickels for scrap is illegal.

New rules outlaw melting pennies, nickels for profit - USATODAY.com

Considering how the Government is defacing our currency on a grand scale, I wouldn't think a little petty defacing would even register.

 

[cburnworth]

I don't know if you can still do this or not, but here is a link for buying coins from the banks. Kennedy Coins

 

[CarmelHP]

Do you have an updated link?

I could have swore I heard someone telling me that if you have (184) Pre-1982 pennies, then you would have 1 lb of copper, and that 1 lb of copper was worth 4x the face value.

United States Code Section 31, Subtitle IV, Chapter 51, Subchapter II, Section 5111(d)1, 2, and 3, which, referring to the secretary of the treasury, reads: "1) The secretary may prohibit or limit the exportation, melting, or treatment of United States coins when the secretary decides the prohibition or limitation is necessary to protect the coinage of the United States.
"2) A person knowingly violating an order or license issued or regulation prescribed under paragraph (1) of this subsection shall be fined not more than $10,000, imprisoned not more than five years, or both.
"3) Coins exported, melted, or treated in violation of an order or license issued or regulation prescribed, and metal resulting from the melting or treatment, shall be forfeited to the United States Government."


Code of Federal Regulations
Title 31: Money and Finance: Treasury
PART 82—5-CENT AND ONE-CENT COIN REGULATIONS

Section Contents
[SIZE=-1]§ 82.1 Prohibitions.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]§ 82.2 Exceptions.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]§ 82.3 Definitions.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]§ 82.4 Penalties.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]Authority: 31 U.S.C. 5111(d).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Source: 72 FR 61055, Oct. 29, 2007, unless otherwise noted.[/SIZE]§ 82.1 Prohibitions.

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...;rgn=div5;view=text;node=31:1.2.1.1.2#PartTop
Except as specifically authorized by the Secretary of the Treasury (or designee) or as otherwise provided in this part, no person shall export, melt, or treat:
(a) Any 5-cent coin of the United States; or
(b) Any one-cent coin of the United States.
§ 82.2 Exceptions.

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...;rgn=div5;view=text;node=31:1.2.1.1.2#PartTop (a) The prohibition contained in §82.1 against the exportation of 5-cent coins and one-cent coins of the United States shall not apply to:
(1) The exportation in any one shipment of 5-cent coins and one-cent coins having an aggregate face value of not more than $100 that are to be legitimately used as money or for numismatic purposes. Nothing in this paragraph shall be construed to authorize export for the purpose of sale or resale of coins for melting or treatment by any person.
(2) The exportation of 5-cent coins and one-cent coins carried on an individual, or in the personal effects of an individual, departing from a place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, when the aggregate face value is not more than $5, or when the aggregate face value is not more than $25 and it is clear that the purpose for exporting such coins is for legitimate personal numismatic, amusement, or recreational use.
(b) The prohibition contained in §82.1 against the treatment of 5-cent coins and one-cent coins shall not apply to the treatment of these coins for educational, amusement, novelty, jewelry, and similar purposes as long as the volumes treated and the nature of the treatment makes it clear that such treatment is not intended as a means by which to profit solely from the value of the metal content of the coins.
(c) The prohibition contained in §82.1 against the exportation, melting, or treatment of 5-cent and one-cent coins of the United States shall not apply to coins exported, melted, or treated incidental to the recycling of other materials so long as—
(1) Such 5-cent and one-cent coins were not added to the other materials for their metallurgical value;
(2) The volumes of the 5-cent coins and one-cent coins, relative to the volumes of the other materials recycled, makes it clear that the presence of such coins is merely incidental; and
(3) The separation of the 5-cent and one-cent coins from the other materials would be impracticable or cost prohibitive.
(d) The prohibition contained in §82.1 against the exportation, melting, or treatment of 5-cent coins shall not apply to 5-cent coins inscribed with the years 1942, 1943, 1944, or 1945 that are composed of an alloy comprising copper, silver and manganese.
(e) The prohibition contained in §82.1 against the exportation of 5-cent coins and one-cent coins shall not apply to 5-cent coins and one-cent coins exported by a Federal Reserve Bank or a domestic depository institution, or to a foreign central bank, when the exportation of such 5-cent coins and one-cent coins is for use as circulating money.
(f)(1) The prohibition contained in §82.1 against exportation, melting, or treatment of 5-cent coins and one-cent coins of the United States shall not apply to coins exported, melted, or treated under a written license issued by the Secretary of the Treasury (or designee).
(2) Applications for licenses should be transmitted to the Director, United States Mint, 801 9th Street, NW., Washington, DC 20220.
§ 82.3 Definitions.

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...;rgn=div5;view=text;node=31:1.2.1.1.2#PartTop (a) 5-cent coin of the United States means a 5-cent coin minted and issued by the Secretary of the Treasury pursuant to 31 U.S.C. 5112(a)(5).
(b) One-cent coin of the United States means a one-cent coin minted and issued by the Secretary of the Treasury pursuant to 31 U.S.C. 5112(a)(6).
(c) Export means to remove, send, ship, or carry, or to take any action with the intent to facilitate a person's removing, sending, shipping, or carrying, from the United States or any place subject to the jurisdiction thereof, to any place outside of the United States or to any place not subject to the jurisdiction thereof.
(d) Person means any individual, partnership, association, corporation, or other organization, but does not include an agency of the Government of the United States.
(e) Treat or treatment means to smelt, refine, or otherwise treat by heating, or by a chemical, electrical, or mechanical process.
§ 82.4 Penalties.

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...;rgn=div5;view=text;node=31:1.2.1.1.2#PartTop (a) Any person who exports, melts, or treats 5-cent coins or one-cent coins of the United States in violation of §82.1 shall be subject to the penalties specified in 31 U.S.C. 5111(d), including a fine of not more than $10,000 and/or imprisonment of not more than 5 years.
(b) In addition to the penalties prescribed by 31 U.S.C. 5111(d), a person violating the prohibitions of this part may be subject to other penalties provided by law, including 18 U.S.C. 1001(a).

 

[PistolBob]

Just last week we went to make some chili, and we didn't have ANY FREAKIN BEANS! WTF!?!

Real chili doesn't have beans in it.