Buying first full auto questions.....

[Goodcat]

MAC11's I've seen around $5k. I've seen M16's for as cheap as $12k-14k. If I had 10k to drop on a full auto, I'd save another 4-5 and get a nice colt M16 from a motivated seller. Your lower receiver (the legal machine gun) can be built to have a billion uppers, caliber conversions, etc. Anything besides the lower receiver is just parts.

 

[Hkindiana]

If you want history, AND a fun gun, you cannot beat the Reising. An ORIGINAL WWII Reising is in your price range. I have had mine for twenty years and have NEVER HAD TO "tinker" with it or replace a single part. In my opinion it is more fun than a Thompson - it is lighter and has a much faster rate of fire. The only drawback is that original mags are expensive.

 

[Beowulf]

If you want history, AND a fun gun, you cannot beat the Reising. An ORIGINAL WWII Reising is in your price range. I have had mine for twenty years and have NEVER HAD TO "tinker" with it or replace a single part. In my opinion it is more fun than a Thompson - it is lighter and has a much faster rate of fire. The only drawback is that original mags are expensive.

You need to bring that fine running Reising to the next INGO Open Shoot at Proteq. We need to get some other MGs running out there than just mine.

 

[stephen87]

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/686056188

 

[SSGSAD]

You guys have been a lot of help. I sure appreciate you guys explaining this to me.......

YES, I had NO idea .....

Thanks for the info .....

 

[Trigger Time]

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/686056188

How.much do the older lowers like that sell for now?

 

[Gaffer]

So what happens to the gun when you buy it, since you can't "own" it until the stamp is completed? Or do you buy the stamp and then pick out a gun?

ron

 

[BehindBlueI's]

So what happens to the gun when you buy it, since you can't "own" it until the stamp is completed? Or do you buy the stamp and then pick out a gun?

ron

It stays at the FFL.

 

[Beowulf]

How.much do the older lowers like that sell for now?

Probably between $18k and $24k, with actual Colt full auto lowers in the 30's and 40's.

 

[Trigger Time]

Probably between $18k and $24k, with actual Colt full auto lowers in the 30's and 40's.

Damn

 

[stephen87]

Probably between $18k and $24k, with actual Colt full auto lowers in the 30's and 40's.

Hokey smokes! I have no doubt the reserve is somewhere near $16k, but $30k+? No thanks. As much fun and as awesome as it would be to own, I couldn't justify it to myself.

 

[Beowulf]

Hokey smokes! I have no doubt the reserve is somewhere near $16k, but $30k+? No thanks. As much fun and as awesome as it would be to own, I couldn't justify it to myself.

Well, when I said "actual Colts", I meant military marked M16s.

The converted AR15s and SP1s are in the first range right now.

 

[Trigger Time]

I just totally missed the boat on this one. I am wanting a full auto m4 so bad but now they are more than I would even pay for a vehicle. It just sucks they are so much

 

[Splagt]

I agree that the current prices are daunting. However, I have advertising circulars from the 1980s which listed 1928 Military Thompsons for less than $2000.00. Current prices are about $25,000.00, and they really sell for that amount. Prices on 1921 Thompsons are astronomical, but they still sell. I paid less than 10% of the current asking price for a RR AR-15, about 15 years ago. Probably a good investment which still brings a smile to the face of new shooters. If you are not risk adverse, I believe there is still room for a future profits. Remember, they don't make them anymore. (at least not that we can buy...)

 

[t1545jh]

I bought an M11-nine in 2012. Paid just over $4k for it. They are now $7-8k. I think for an an entry level machine gun the M11 is had to beat. All the Mac's are good guns but the M11-nine has the most versatility and available uppers. You can even still find them new in the box as was the case with mine. Mine was built in 1986 but sat in the box somewhere and had never been fired. There's a saying in the machine gun world that "you never pay to much, you just bought to soon". I paid $500-$1000 more than market value for mine in 2012. It bothered me for about a year, that's how long it took for the market to catch up. I have been smiling ever since. Happy hunting.

 

[kaveman]

A Form 3 (dealer to dealer) is still taking 3+ months to process, and then you have the Form 4 wait (upwards of a year currently). If it's an out of state gun on a Form 4 (meaning you have to go Form 4 to Form 3 on sending side and then Form 3 to Form 3 transfer to Indiana, and then Form 3 to Form 4 to you), you not only will have to pay at least the $400 for the two stamps, you are possibly looking at 2+ years to get your gun.

I'd like to make a little change to this.

If you're buying a gun that is out of state from an individual owner there will be two forms4 and two taxes due but there's no reason to transfer to a dealer in the seller's state. Being a dealer allows you to trade interstate so the gun would properly go from the out of state seller on a tax-paid form4 to the Indiana dealer and then from that dealer on another tax-paid form4 to the Indiana buyer. Also, on the first transfer form4-to-dealer there is no requirement for pics/prints/BG check so it won't take anywhere near the 10-12 months of a normal form4. It's actually treated exactly like a form3 dealer-to-dealer transfer(since the required information is the same(Page 1, front side only)with the exception that the required tax payment forces it to be submitted to Atlanta rather than directly to NFA Branch. Atlanta will remove the tax payment and forward the forms to NFA where for all intents and purposes it becomes a form3. Adds about two weeks to the process. I just received an approved form3-to-dealer earlier this month that was six weeks door-to-door,......so with a little luck and timely submission of forms the whole thing could be done,......seller to buyer,......in 12 months.

I just mailed out six more form3-to-dealer transfers Monday and expect/hope to be delivering the guns to the buyer mid-late October.

Uzi for $10k would be about impossible unless it's a registered bolt and the problem with the registered bolt is that you're stuck with whatever caliber that bolt is. A lot can be done with MACs,......one of the guns I just submitted the transfer on Monday was an M10/45 and it sold for $6k. I'd personally be looking at STens if my budget was $7-10k and I'd be holding a Sterling kit in reserve for later upgrade(so you do need to be sure to get an upgradable STen).

Someone upthread mentioned the Stemple, and in particular the BRP modular Stemples. Those too are fine guns. I like some of the earlier discontinued models myself and I was just on the BRP website and see that all their current guns are offered at $13k+. I was considering selling my STG-76 which I think is the best one made(Suomi 71rd drums with HK grip and stock). It fires fast and is fairly heavy but is more or less designed to be fired from the bipod. It feels and acts like a 9mm MG42,......great fun to shoot. You can lighten them up a bit by swapping on the shorter barrel and shroud. Barrel/shroud/bolt/trigger assembly and magazines are all common/cheap and available Swede/Finn surplus stuff. Pretty adaptable.

 

[HoughMade]

Probably between $18k and $24k, with actual Colt full auto lowers in the 30's and 40's.

When I think of the way we treated those things when I was working for Uncle Sam.....

 

[Beowulf]

When I think of the way we treated those things when I was working for Uncle Sam.....

Well, don't worry about that. The M4s they are still giving the guys in the field still cost way less than $1000 and the government was just basically giving away the old A1s and A2s... just not to us citizens. Clearly, we can't be trusted, you know, unlike the Iraqi National Army (who basically just hands their guns over to ISIS at the drop of a hat).

 

[kaveman]

Yes, it's usually the paper you're paying for. I used to hang around with a gunsmith buddy who was licensed as a manufacturer. I was into every MG kit that ever hit the market and I would usually buy at least two, sending one to him for reweld into post-samples for shooting. When we'd head up into the hills for a shoot we'd just toss 20-30 guns loose into the back of a pickup(and usually toss a dozen cases of ammo on top to keep them from bouncing around too much. Thompsons and Brownings and Brens and every type of 9mm whatever just stacked like cordwood. All the kits were at most $200,........it boggles the mind.

 

[Paul30]

When I think of the way we treated those things when I was working for Uncle Sam.....

When I think of the way we treated those things when I was working for Uncle Sam.....

They buy in bulk, and get a very good price. In 1995 I looked them up on the supply system and they cost about $300 each. I met a guy at the range around 1995 who told me he just sold 2 that he had from before the May 1986 date. Back then, we could go to the gun shop, pay the man about $300 and he would drill the hole and change out the needed parts to convert it to a factory quality M16. I asked him what he sold them for since I knew at the time $4700 was a good price. He replied he sold them for $4700. I replied "Each?" "He said no, for the pair" I bet the guy offered $4700 each, and the guy misunderstood and sold them both for $4700 not knowing how much they went up in price. He paid about $1000 each for them so he figured he did ok. The M16 is one of the most versatile machine guns out there. I wonder how long before people just start becoming manufacturers. $500 per year license to make as many as you want, and as long as you keep the license, you keep the items. You get tired of being a manufacturer and you give up the toys. At $20,000 per gun, you could have a manufacturers license for 40 years and build every gun you ever wanted, then give them up when you have had enough fun. MP5's, M16's, newer models that you can't even buy because they are past the May 1986 date. A manufacturer can modify an AR15 to an M16 by simply changing out $300 in trigger parts and drilling a single hole. I am sure many have gotten the manufacturing license for that reason, even though it is frowned upon like becoming a gun dealer just for deals for yourself friends and family.

The cost today is simply because it is a LEGAL machine gun with papers that keep you out of prison for possession. You could say you are paying $1000 for the M16, and $19000 for the Form 4 to make it legal. A legal machine gun stolen has little value, because it is registered to the owner and anyone caught with it faces very stiff penalties. $250,000 fine and 10 years in prison last I checked. A crime committed with a NFA product adds about 30 years to a sentence at one time, so criminals don't really want to use them in a crime unless they are planning to die in the process.