Caliber for deer

[cce1302]

I grew up in Ohio where you could only hunt deer with a handgun .357 magnum or greater, or with shotgun slugs (also muzzleloader and bow, but that's not part of my question). I have read the Indiana regs and am a bit unclear on what calibers are allowed in what firearms, and since the topic was mentioned in another thread, I figured I'd ask here: What calibers can I use in what firearms for deer in Indiana?

Here's what's confusing: 460XVR not legal, but 460 special is ok in handguns? WSSM rifles ok, but not WSM or Win Mag?

 

[melensdad]

NO you can NOT use any of the WSSM factory loads!!!

Caliber must be .357 or larger. No WSSM factory loads qualify. Further the case length for a standard WSSM is slightly too long! So even wildcatted WSSM cases are not allowed UNLESS you trim the neck down so they fit within the D.N.R. specifications for min/max case length.

 

[40calPUNISHER]

460 S&W Magnum is legal. I hunted with it last year and plan to do so again this year.

 

[cce1302]

NO you can NOT use any of the WSSM factory loads!!!

Caliber must be .357 or larger. No WSSM factory loads qualify. Further the case length for a standard WSSM is slightly too long! So even wildcatted WSSM cases are not allowed UNLESS you trim the neck down so they fit within the D.N.R. specifications for min/max case length.

Check. but IF you could wildcat some kind of .357 caliber WSSM style round, in a deer-legal length, you could get much higher velocity and better ballistic performance than you could with some of the deer-illegal ammunition? Why don't they just let us use rifles? (yeah, that last one is rhetorical).

 

[cce1302]

460 S&W Magnum is legal. I hunted with it last year and plan to do so again this year.

That's good to know. I was assuming it was illegal because I saw an Encore barrel on gunbroker.com for sale that was marketed as ".460 S&W Special-Legal for deer in Indiana" that went on to explain that the .460 case length was too long for hunting deer in Indiana. I believed them because I didn't want to drive around with a tape measure until I found a gunshop that had .460 ammo in stock.
The numbers on the .460 are pretty cool. I'd like to try it out of a 15" Encore.

 

[singlestacksig]

460 S&W Magnum is legal. I hunted with it last year and plan to do so again this year.

BUT, 460 Weatherby is NOT legal.
just in case someone confuses the two...

 

[cce1302]

BTW Sorry I just found the thread in the great outdoors. I never go down there.

 

[indyjoe]

Ignoring Bow, Shotgun and Muzzleloader. First you have to determine if you are talking Handgun or Rifle.

Rifle - As discussed, at least 1.16" long and less than 1.625" with bullet diameter of .357" or greater.

Handgun - Bullet diameter .243 or greater and at least 1.16" long. You can hunt deer with a .50 BMG handgun, if you like. God help your wrists. Barrel length limited to 16" or overall length to 22". There is no upper limit on handgun.

 

[cce1302]

358 WSSM is legal for use, and beats the non-legal 358 win mag by 100 fps?
Whiskey Tango Furball, OVer?

 

[melensdad]

358 WSSM is legal for use, and beats the non-legal 358 win mag by 100 fps?
Whiskey Tango Furball, OVer?

The 358 WSSM is a wildcat not a factory round, further the guy who builds those (Mike at D-Tech) cuts the cases down to make them 'fit' into the Indiana law. If he would simply neck up a 243 WSSM or 25 WSSM parent case to hold the 358 bullets the case would be too long and would be illegal.

I've posted several times about Mike and the work he is doing at Dedicated Technologies here on the INGO forums, he's a class act, makes a great AR upper and does it in a lot of different calibers both factory and wildcat.

 

[40calPUNISHER]

cce1302, you cannot use the 460 in a rifle in Indiana. The 460 case lenght is 1.80" and to be legal it needs to be 1.625". As far as handgun ammo out of a handgun there is not maximum. Now the 500 S&W can be used in rifle form, but it doesnt have as awesome of ballistics as the 460.

 

[melensdad]

Rifle - As discussed, at least 1.16" long and less than 1.65" with bullet diameter of .357" or greater.

I'm betting it was just a TYPO, but the case length you quoted above is actually too long. For rifle hunting the limit is 1.625" not 1.65.

• fire a bullet of three hundred fifty-seven thousandths of an inch (.357) diameter or larger
• have a minimum case length of one and sixteen hundredths (1.16) inches; and
• have a maximum case length of one and six hundred twenty-five thousandths (1.625) inches

Also for those interested in the WSSM, the case length for those, as they come from the factory is: 1.67" So to be legal to use a WSSM case it must be trimmed back at least 0.045" which may not seem like a lot, but is necessary to be legal, further the LOA of the case should be checked before it is reloaded because case necks can stretch after firing so it may need to be trimmed back each time it is used. Personally I'd trim it back 0.05 just so I didn't run afoul of the law if I was going to use one. But the more research I do on the 358 WSSM the less I like it for Indiana deer hunting. It is simply to punishing to bother with, recoil is more than I want and the reality is there is no need for a magnum round to take down an Indiana whitetail. I don't begrudge anyone else who wants one, but I'd much prefer the 35 Gremlin wildcat, based on a necked up 6.5 Grendel. Ballistics seem to be just a very slight bit hotter than a standard 35 Remington and that is a very well respected round.

 

[mosesiscarryingapdw]

You can hunt deer with a .50 BMG handgun, if you like.

Thankfully none of these exist, except for the prototype that was at SHOT a few years ago, presented by a company that mysteriously went out of business almost the very next day!

 

[cce1302]

The 358 WSSM is a wildcat not a factory round, further the guy who builds those (Mike at D-Tech) cuts the cases down to make them 'fit' into the Indiana law. If he would simply neck up a 243 WSSM or 25 WSSM parent case to hold the 358 bullets the case would be too long and would be illegal.

I've posted several times about Mike and the work he is doing at Dedicated Technologies here on the INGO forums, he's a class act, makes a great AR upper and does it in a lot of different calibers both factory and wildcat.

Yeah, his work is great; what I just don't get is why a factory round that performs slightly worse than this wildcat would be illegal for use on deer just because it's a hair longer.

Maybe the DNR guys are politicians?

 

[melensdad]

... I just don't get is why a factory round that performs slightly worse than this wildcat would be illegal for use on deer just because it's a hair longer.

Very likely because so few people will go through the expense, time and trouble to make a wildcat. If you think about it, if there are 10,000 deer hunters out in the woods, it is likely only handful of them would be carrying a wildcat chambering, and if they know enough about ballistics to develop loads for a wildcat then they are probably also the people who the DNR would worry the least about.

 

[indyjoe]

I'm betting it was just a TYPO, but the case length you quoted above is actually too long. For rifle hunting the limit is 1.625" not 1.65.

Yes, typo. Corrected.

 

[melensdad]

Yes, typo. Corrected.

Yup, I thought so. Sure I did. Uh huh.

 

[Foxtrot]

All of this hunting with center fire rifles in Indiana is a bit confusing to me. I have no idea what I can use and can not use. From what I understand, the cartridges that can be used are in my opinion oddball rounds not commonly used and need to be within certain specs and only made for certain rifles. In plain English can one of you fine gentlemen explain to a sister Hoosier hunter, who hunts for food not sport just what rifle and round combo she can use legal? If Its something I don't already own. I will just stick to my shotgun. Its not worth it to me to go out and buy another rifle just to be able to hunt with it legal. Also how did the DNR come up with the specs as to what rifle round is legal and what is not? I honestly don't know guys, Help a sister out.
Besides, I have killed more game with my car than with a firearm. Just kidding on that last comment.
Thanks guy's

 

[Soundslikejosh]

Here is the beginning of a list of COMMONLY AVAILABLE factory cartridges that are legal. Feel free to add to the list as long as it isn't a wildcat cartridge.

.357 mag
.41 mag
.44 mag
.45 Long Colt?

 

[Foxtrot]

Here is the beginning of a list of COMMONLY AVAILABLE factory cartridges that are legal. Feel free to add to the list as long as it isn't a wildcat cartridge.

.357 mag
.41 mag
.44 mag
.45 Long Colt?

AHH! Now I see! They are handgun cartridges that are capable of being fired out of a rifle ie. Winchester lever action ect. Thank you for turning the light on for me Soundslikejosh.