Can cops speed without their lights/siren on?

[Blackhawk2001]

You could also FOIA dispatch records and see if they were actually responding to a run and if they dropped the run to ticket you. If they weren't on a run, you might have a valid argument as to why your ticket should be dismissed; the judge might not like the fact that they were speeding for no reason when they stopped you. Then again, he might not care either.

 

[bglaze]

Does not matter if you accept it or not. If you were speeding and he was speeding you are both guilty. It just happens that he had the ticket book at the time.

While I applaud your efforts, I would advise you to pick your battles wisely, as this one is not one I see you winning.

The problem is, I truly feel wronged here. I don't believe I was speeding 1 mph over the speed limit.

Since I knew this, I asked for proof. His only proof revealed that he believe he was actually breaking the law.

All this adding up. I don't want to pay this ticket, have my insurance go up, just to give more revenue to the county.

I have never fought a ticket, be it parking, seat belt, or otherwise, though I have few. I was choosing to drive safely in this instance, and i get penalized, because of a few bored cops.

I am taking this one to court regardless of the outcome. Even if it costs me more, my conscience won't let me admit wrongdoing.

 

[phylodog]

I speed every day. Every. Single. Day.

Just like tens of thousands of other people in this city. If I didn't and stopped everyone who passed me (and was therefore speeding) I suspect we'd have some pretty irate people. Wouldn't take long before no one passed me and it would take everyone an extra 30 minutes to get to work.

 

[bglaze]

Couple of things:

1. This is not your normal 4th amendment type illegal behavior which normally leads to suppression of the stop. The act of speeding by the police is not a "search or seizure" so I question whether the fact they were doing something technically illegal while gaining evidence to support stopping you will matter at all. As such, I question whether you have a legal defense.

2. As soon as the ticket is filed with the court, which on an E-ticket is pretty dang quick, it is not up to the department whether the ticket stands. Only the prosecutor can move to dismiss it. If the prosecutor wants to proceed, the issuing department has no legal ability to prevent that.

3. Whether they were actually on a call or not is easily ascertainable by their supervisors. If they are on a call, they are logged onto that call via computer or via dispatch. If they were not on a call, I personally consider a lack of truthiness a much bigger problem than speeding when it comes to police officers.

4. I also really don't care if the cops, (or anyone else for that matter) speeds within reason. I do think it hypocritical if cops write people discretionary tickets for behavior they themselves commit. However, there is a lot less discretion in ticket writing these days what with OPO quotas and gov't budget crunches.

Best,

Joe

Awesome advice, thank you.

 

[Bunnykid68]

The problem is, I truly feel wronged here. I don't believe I was speeding 1 mph over the speed limit.

Since I knew this, I asked for proof. His only proof revealed that he believe he was actually breaking the law.

All this adding up. I don't want to pay this ticket, have my insurance go up, just to give more revenue to the county.

I have never fought a ticket, be it parking, seat belt, or otherwise, though I have few. I was choosing to drive safely in this instance, and i get penalized, because of a few bored cops.

I am taking this one to court regardless of the outcome. Even if it costs me more, my conscience won't let me admit wrongdoing.

Good for you. It is all about principle, so go and say your piece and of course let us know what happens.

 

[Bunnykid68]

I speed every day. Every. Single. Day.

Just like tens of thousands of other people in this city. If I didn't and stopped everyone who passed me (and was therefore speeding) I suspect we'd have some pretty irate people. Wouldn't take long before no one passed me and it would take everyone an extra 30 minutes to get to work.

Arent you a cop? And you advocate breaking the law everyday?

 

[Fargo]

Arent you a cop? And you advocate breaking the law everyday?

And here I thought he was advocating acting with integrity...

 

[phylodog]

Arent you a cop? And you advocate breaking the law everyday?

Did I encourage anyone to speed?

It's called being realistic. I, just like the majority of people in this country, feel that speed limits are ridiculously low for no reason other than the insurance companies having the elected officials in their pockets.

There is the law, there is what is reasonable, and what is unreasonable. Yes, I speed, every day. I take no action when I see around a thousand other people doing them same thing every day. Occasionally I do pull someone over who I believe is traveling at an unreasonable speed (I have not written a ticket in 10yrs). Most of the time it is because they pass me when I'm already going over the speed limit. I stop them for two reasons; 1. People expect me to. 2. I'm always curious as to what goes through some folks minds. I would never pass a police car which was already going 10mph over the speed limit.

 

[revolvers&w]

DUUHHH

Absolutely, happens every day in every Town, City, Township,Municipality, Hamlet, Burg, Province and County Seat in every state in this blesed Union.

There is not a damned thing that will ever be done about it.


Look on the bright side, part of the fine you pay may go into their gas tank to allow them to continue tobreak the law you pay them to enforce without being concerned with m.p.g. of their take home cars.

I better stop.

 

[WhitleyStu]

If your speed was not registered on a radar gun how will your speed be proved in court? Does an Leo's opnion of your speed replace an instrument? Just curious...

 

[phylodog]

If your speed was not registered on a radar gun how will your speed be proved in court? Does an Leo's opnion of your speed replace an instrument? Just curious...

Traffic infractions only require a good faith belief on the part of the officer to be found guilty. The proof beyond a reasonable doubt criteria is reserved for crimes.

 

[Yup!]

This is the type of stuff I find my self arguing. Yes you have valid points. Yes you have video proof that he said he was going 20 miles per hour over the speed limit. I just dont think you have the authority to ticket him. Video proof of him speeding isn't probably going to get him a ticket. If that were the case, the average citizen could film other citizens and ask for them to be ticketed. That's a mess..

Your defense forces you to admit you broke the law. In order for you to get out of your ticket you have to admit you passed a speeding vehicle. If you prove he is going over the speed limit and he proves you passed him, you've admitted to speeding. Pay the fine. You got caught.

As to what to do about him speeding that's a whole different issue, but it doesn't negate the fact that you broke the law, and got caught, and not have to pay the fine.

I see this ending with you paying a fine, and his supervisor laughing at him and saying, don't speed officer. Don't waste the courts time, pay your fine, and file a complaint with the department.

 

[CampingJosh]

I'm no lawyer, but I'd look to attack it this way: Is the information from their speedometer admissible in court? I mean, he said that he was doing 20 over, but that doesn't mean he actually was. If you can cast doubt on the reliability of that the speedometer as an accurate measuring device (like, perhaps, all of traffic was moving at approximately the same speed you were), you may get out of it.

May be worth checking out this information.

 

[Fargo]

BTW, I believe the IC code you are looking for is:

IC 9-21-1-8

Best,

Joe

 

[rw496]

If your speed was not registered on a radar gun how will your speed be proved in court? Does an Leo's opnion of your speed replace an instrument? Just curious...

a traffic ticket is a civil action and requires a preponderance of the evidence..51 percent likely that he was speeding based on the slower car going 50 mph..guilty. I'm not sure how they could say you were going exactly 55 though. Also, an officers opinion based on training and experience has been enough in some other rulings

 

[bglaze]

Your defense forces you to admit you broke the law.

Well, I don't think it really has to, because I definitely will not admit guilt in this case.

However, when I asked for proof, since I don't believe I was guilty, his only evidence involves HIM breaking the law. Which could possibly make the evidence inadmissible.

Again, I am not admitting that I or he was breaking the law. He is merely claiming to have broken the law in order to have a valid reason to give me a ticket.

Which is weird at the very least and possibly just plain wrong.

 

[jsharmon7]

Well, I don't think it really has to, because I definitely will not admit guilt in this case.

However, when I asked for proof, since I don't believe I was guilty, his only evidence involves HIM breaking the law. Which could possibly make the evidence inadmissible.

Again, I am not admitting that I or he was breaking the law. He is merely claiming to have broken the law in order to have a valid reason to give me a ticket.

Which is weird at the very least and possibly just plain wrong.

Why would it be inadmissible?

 

[Yup!]

i still think they are two distinct actions.

Even if he admits to breaking the law, (speeding) his breaking the law did not infringe on your rights. He didn't push you to go faster. His breaking the law is independent of you breaking the law. Pay the fine - then file a complaint with the dept.

 

[Brandon]

Well, I don't think it really has to, because I definitely will not admit guilt in this case.

Sounds like you already admitted guilt in the first post.

You immediately asked why they were going 20 over the limit, you also said you passed the cops.

 

[bglaze]

Sounds like you already admitted guilt in the first post.

You immediately asked why they were going 20 over the limit, you also said you passed the cops.

Nevertheless, I still hold that neither of us were speeding. The officer's only evidence, however, was to claim that he was.

I still don't believe I was exceeding the speed limit, regardless of the officer's claims.

Sorry to keep going around in circles. I honestly don't think I was speeding. I am merely pointing out the officers only evidence was that he was (we'll say allegedly) speeding himself.