Can/should a first trimester woman shoot at Appleseed?

[philagothon]

My niece was planning on coming to the 9/17-18 Bedford shoot, but just found out yesterday that she is pregnant. She has been really excited about going to an Appleseed shoot and was totally heartbroken when I told her last night that she would not be able to shoot. I've spent the morning reading up on the risks of shooting while pregnant and I'm wondering if this might still be a doable thing.

It seems the major unpreventable risk is related to the sound levels. At the time of the Appleseed she will likely be at 6-8 weeks. From my reading this morning, it appears that babies have zero sense of hearing until ~16 weeks and that the major hearing organs are not complete until 24 weeks. So I'm not sure the sound would/should be a major issue.

The other major risk, especially with 22lr, is lead. It seems the major exposure risks are loading lead ammo, shooting lead ammo, and eating without properly washing up. If either her fiance or myself load her mags then that risk is eliminated. We can get some de-lead soap so that she can wash up properly, greatly reducing that risk. The one seemingly unavoidable risk would be shooting lead ammo and lead vapors. Fortunately it is an outdoor shoot, so that will help reduce the lead somewhat. I've looked into getting her a lead mask, but I'm not sure it would be possible to get a proper cheek weld while wearing a mask, or that trying to get a cheek weld would not cause the mask to leak. I also wonder if shooting copper plated ammo would reduce the exposure risk somewhat.

Yesterday was a very emotional day for her, full of highs and lows, but one of the lowest moments was when I told her that she would not be able to shoot at the Appleseed. I know that she would be much more upset though if something happened to her baby.

So, what do all of you think? Can the potential dangers be reduced enough that a first trimester woman can shoot at an Appleseed?

 

[Davegrave]

Don't worry so much about the lead. Load her mags, have her wash up good and you're good to go. Don't worry about the mask. She's pregnant. Baby's are tough. It's some lead in the air, not the Black Death.

Worry about the sound aspect. I know later in the term, indoor ranges should be avoided, but I think occasional use of an outdoor range is fine even in the third if I remember right. That baby is in there pretty good. There's a lot of skin and muscle and blood and amniotic fluid to get thru before the sound gets to the baby.

I would have no problems with my in utero baby attending an appleseed. I'm sure he'd be getting no more toxins from that than from the rest of this filthy world for the next 80 years of his life.

 

[techres]

This is 100% up to her and you. I have had women who were pregnant on the line more than once and far further along than what you are proposing.

Personally, I would not overly fret but can fully understand being careful. If she does attend, I do advise careful washing of hands, putting clothes into the washer when you get home and do not have her handle lead round nose rounds. I have been told that noise is not an issue more than once, but I am no doctor and have no idea if it is true.

Would I take my wife in her first trimester? Sure.
Would I make 100% sure she stayed hydrated and comfortable? Yeah.
Would I advise her to take timeouts if she got worn out? Absolutely.

Go, take it slow, be willing to leave if you need to, and do whatever she feels comfortable with.

And if you need a doc's advice, find one and ask.

 

[Bill of Rights]

This is 100% up to her and you. I have had women who were pregnant on the line more than once and far further along than what you are proposing.

Personally, I would not overly fret but can fully understand being careful. If she does attend, I do advise careful washing of hands, putting clothes into the washer when you get home and do not have her handle lead round nose rounds. I have been told that noise is not an issue more than once, but I am no doctor and have no idea if it is true.

Would I take my wife in her first trimester? Sure.
Would I make 100% sure she stayed hydrated and comfortable? Yeah.
Would I advise her to take timeouts if she got worn out? Absolutely.

Go, take it slow, be willing to leave if you need to, and do whatever she feels comfortable with.

And if you need a doc's advice, find one and ask.

Once again, Techres' advice is absolutely spot-on. I would not fret about a pregnant shooter even if she was someone close to me, certainly not early in the pregnancy. While I am a paramedic, I'm no doctor, though, and I would suggest that she seek the advice of one she trusts, hopefully one who is pro 2A so that she's not fighting that battle as well. This is her baby and like you, I'm sure she would not want to do anything that would risk his/her health.

I hope you both enjoy the shoot... I don't think that there's much risk that you won't, though.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[AuntieBellum]

If she does on fact decide to go, I would ask that she inform the Shoot Boss upon her arrival. Then all of the instructors can be made discreetly aware of the need to keep an extra eye out for her. That's not a bad thing or to single her out, but if someone else notices she looks worn out, overheated, etc, then extra precautions may be taken before an emergency were to arise.
One of the instructors at the first shoot I attended was pregnant at the time. I was pretty impressed to see her get down with an ar with that baby bump.

 

[redneckmedic]

I agree with the above.... nothing to worry about other than heat related issues, FYI, I don't think you get two patches though for accomplishing Rifleman

 

[Bubba]

FYI, I don't think you get two patches though for accomplishing Rifleman

I think I might have a set of Prenatal Rifleman patches in a drawer around here somewhere. No sewing required. Just lick and stick!

 

[cordex]

FWIW, I spoke to the head of OB at a hospital who handled a pregnant Sheriff's Department firearms instructor. The doctor determined that the noise even from regular shooting of centerfire handguns would have no adverse effect on a fetus at any stage in the pregnancy.

 

[philagothon]

Thanks for the responses everyone. She was ecstatic to hear that she would be able to shoot after all. We'll be sure to let the shoot boss know and we'll keep an eye on her.

The most authoritative info I was able to find came from here: Shooting while pregnant
It is not terribly conclusive, but they tend to err on the side of caution unless it is a matter of necessity.

Thanks again for your help. Reps to everyone as I'm able!

 

[Jay]

I really did look, and search, but I couldn't find the original thread...

I had a pregnant (first trimester) lady inquire about firearms classes for her and her husband. I told her that I would be glad to teach her, but only upon receipt of a statement from her Dr. saying that it would be safe for her to do so. I've had several similar requests over the years, and have never received a statement from a Dr. saying it would be safe to shoot during pregnancy. I haven't found any concrete evidence, either way. I won't risk damaging the hearing of an unborn child, but here are a couple of considerations.....

Dangerous Decibels » Hearing Loss

• A typical conversation occurs at 60 dB - not loud enough to cause damage.
• A bulldozer that is idling (note that this is idling, not actively bulldozing) is loud enough at 85 dB that it can cause permanent damage after only 1 work day (8 hours).
• When listening to music on earphones at a standard volume level 5, the sound generated reaches a level of 100 dB, loud enough to cause permanent damage after just 15 minutes per day!
• A clap of thunder from a nearby storm (120 dB) or a gunshot (140-190 dB, depending on weapon), can both cause immediate damage.

then this........

http://www.theppsc.org/Staff_Views/C...nt_officer.htm

Noise usually is considered to be detrimental during pregnancy. In most European countries, health regulations forbid pregnant women from working in surroundings with a continuous noise level greater than 80 dB or a rapid-impulse noise level greater than 40 dB, which is much less than the noise of a firearm [6]. In the United States, the Occupational Safety and Health Administration permissible exposure limit for rapid-impulse noise is 140 dB, with additional regulations for continuous noise. The sound levels of firearms are about 125 to 140 dB for rimfire rifles; 140 to 150 dB for rimfire pistols; and 150 to 160 dB for centerfire rifles, pistols, and shotguns [7].

Intrauterine measurements showed that the fetus was not significantly protected against loud noises [8]. One study in human volunteers found a maximal intrauterine noise attenuation of 10 dB at 4000 Hz [9]. In a study of ewes, the noise attenuation was 20 dB at 4000 Hz, but the noise inside the uterus was 2 to 5 dB greater at 250 Hz [10]. In comparison, foam plugs offer attenuation of 12 to 20 dB and are considered to be the least effective hearing protection [7].

Noise exposure during pregnancy has been associated with several disorders, including miscarriage [11,12], intrauterine growth retardation [13,14,16], preterm delivery [12,15,16], hearing loss in babies and children [17], altered immune response in the fetus [18], and hypertension [12]. A combined exposure to noise and lead seems to have an increased toxicity, causing heart lesions, which are not observed for those agents alone [19].

For information only.....

 

[philagothon]

Jay, thanks for your input. The article you cite from theppsc.org is written by one of the co-authors of the article I mentioned above and offers much of the same info I had already found. One important thing in the article I found is that at < 16 weeks babies have zero response to sounds. Their hearing is not fully developed until 24-25 weeks. My niece will be < 8 weeks along at the time of the shoot.

One of the things that sorta bothers me about the noise exposure issues mentioned in both of our articles is that their resources are from occupational studies. Forty hours of exposure a week for seven to nine months is bound to cause more trouble than two days in the first trimester. We will take reasonable precautions, and I expect everything will be okay. If she were past 16 weeks I would probably stand by my initial assertion that she is not shooting. Since she will only be half way there I don't see a reason to prevent her from shooting. If she truly needed a doctor's note to shoot, it seems like cordex might know of one that would sign-off.

 

[Prometheus]

Sound can most certainly have an impact on an unborn child.

Appleseeds are outdoors, so there is the +1.

Most Appleseeds there are alot of .22lr's. another +1

1st trimester another +1.

IMO I'd have her go and put her at the end of the line with some guys with .22lr's next to her and if there are any big bore guys, farther down the line from her.

I wouldn't be concerned in the least given the above.

My wife loves to shoot and we researched this fully for our girls.

Short list of "no's" to stay on the safe side for us-

- No indoor shooting at any stage of pregnancy.
- I loaded all her mags or she wore gloves to load.
- handgun calibers in second trimester.
- No shooting after second trimester.

Good luck, appleseeds are a wonderful experience.

 

[JetGirl]

I really did look, and search, but I couldn't find the original thread...

Way back then, the OP had it deleted, if I recall correctly (and if we're talking about the same thread). It's the one this thread reminded me of, too. Glad you saved the info!

 

[philagothon]

IMO I'd have her go and put her at the end of the line with some guys with .22lr's next to her and if there are any big bore guys, farther down the line from her.

I wouldn't be concerned in the least given the above.

That's pretty much our game plan, along with making sure she washes up real well before eating. My experience with the Appleseed crew, as well as the people attracted to the events, makes me think it won't be much of a problem.

Good luck, appleseeds are a wonderful experience.

I could not agree more! This will be my second 'Seed. I enjoyed the first one so much that I am bringing three under 21 shooters with me this time. There will also be another shooter there that I (and a couple others) have been working on for the last year. I managed to shoot Rifleman at my first one with my Savage MkII BV and look forward to proving it was not a fluke and hopefully improving my score.

 

[hawkhavn]

I think we're going to need a bigger line...

HH