Can you *legally* purchase a firearm if you wouldn't pass a NICS check?

[SSGSAD]

For ME, YOU must have an In., LTCH, and In., Driver License .....

That protects ME .....

If In., screwed up, giving you a LTCH, then that is not my fault .....

I am NOT a Lawyer .....

Just want to stay OUT of jail .....

 

[rbhargan]

Cannot pass a background check because . . . . ?

Does not matter. Obviously, if you are a convicted felon you cannot legally possess, let alone purchase. But on the other end of the scale - an occasional marijuana user or an illegal alien - are you prohibited from purchasing a firearm? If you knowingly sell to someone who falls into either category?

I wasn't going to get into it, but what constitutes "due diligence" on the part of the seller? If the purchaser has a foreign accent? If they are driving a car with a "NORML" bumper sticker? How far do you, as a seller, have to go to insure that you are selling to a proper person?

 

[Fargo]

Does not matter. Obviously, if you are a convicted felon you cannot legally possess, let alone purchase. But on the other end of the scale - an occasional marijuana user or an illegal alien - are you prohibited from purchasing a firearm? If you knowingly sell to someone who falls into either category? I wasn't going to get into it, but what constitutes "due diligence" on the part of the seller? If the purchaser has a foreign accent? If they are driving a car with a "NORML" bumper sticker? How far do you, as a seller, have to go to insure that you are selling to a proper person?

Pull up a form 4473 and read the instructions to answering the specific questions. It will even tell you where in the US code the specific statutes in question are.

 

[bwframe]

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...uana-legalized-under-trump-4.html#post6991020

 

[rbhargan]

Excellent reference, bwframe. My suspicion has been that if you cannot pass a NICS check, you cannot *legally* purchase a firearm from a private seller, but the law seems to always have in inordinate amount of wiggle room. This brings up a second point, which is how much due diligence is required of a seller? Obviously, requiring an Indiana DL and LTCH goes a long way, but is that sufficient? As a seller, you have no way of knowing if the LTCH is still valid, and if the person presents you with a paper LTCH, you have no way of knowing if it is forged (a trivial thing to accomplish).

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Does not matter.

It most certainly does.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Excellent reference, bwframe. My suspicion has been that if you cannot pass a NICS check, you cannot *legally* purchase a firearm from a private seller, but the law seems to always have in inordinate amount of wiggle room. This brings up a second point, which is how much due diligence is required of a seller? Obviously, requiring an Indiana DL and LTCH goes a long way, but is that sufficient? As a seller, you have no way of knowing if the LTCH is still valid, and if the person presents you with a paper LTCH, you have no way of knowing if it is forged (a trivial thing to accomplish).

The standard is knows or should have known.

 

[Bennettjh]

If I knew all those things about the buyer, I wouldn't sell to him. IANAL.

As far as if the seller commited a crime, again, IANAL.

 

[KG1]

Can we start the chaos and acrimony now?

 

[rbhargan]

Can we start the chaos and acrimony now?

20hrs.

 

[jedi]

I wasn't going to get into it, but what constitutes "due diligence" on the part of the seller? If the purchaser has a foreign accent? If they are driving a car with a "NORML" bumper sticker? How far do you, as a seller, have to go to insure that you are selling to a proper person?

Excellent reference, bwframe. My suspicion has been that if you cannot pass a NICS check, you cannot *legally* purchase a firearm from a private seller, but the law seems to always have in inordinate amount of wiggle room. This brings up a second point, which is how much due diligence is required of a seller? Obviously, requiring an Indiana DL and LTCH goes a long way, but is that sufficient? As a seller, you have no way of knowing if the LTCH is still valid, and if the person presents you with a paper LTCH, you have no way of knowing if it is forged (a trivial thing to accomplish).

Get peace of mind and do the sale via an FFL.
Even PAY the FFL fee for the buyer.
This way you ensure legally no one can come after you.
If the buyer backs out cause they don't want to do the background check that is on them, find another buyer.

 

[SEIndSAM]

Can we start the chaos and acrimony now?

End of page 3, it's about time...

 

[rbhargan]

It most certainly does.

Perhaps I should have phrased that "are there any instances where failure to pass a NICS check would NOT preclude you from making a legal purchase from a private seller." My initial thought would be "no."

 

[rbhargan]

To sum up (since some folk are anxious to move on to the chaos and acrimony), if a purchaser could not pass a NICS check, they cannot legally purchase a firearm from a private seller.
The followup question is how much due diligence is required from a seller? My guess is that there is no definitive answer to that.

 

[Fargo]

To sum up (since some folk are anxious to move on to the chaos and acrimony), if a purchaser could not pass a NICS check, they cannot legally purchase a firearm from a private seller.The followup question is how much due diligence is required from a seller? My guess is that there is no definitive answer to that.

The circumstances of every transaction are different, there is no bright line rule. If they are waving around a medical marijuana card, have out-of-state plates or drivers license, talk about their time in the pen, talk about going home to Canada etc. you really shouldn't sell to them.Beyond that, it is a question of how documentation etc. you want. Many sell twithout requiring anything, whereas I have other friends who will require you to do a 4473 transfer. There is no bright line answer. I suggest using common sense taking into account who it is you're dealing with.

 

[rbhargan]

So, someone who shows up with limited English skills, wearing a DOC orange jumpsuit and smoking a crack pipe should raise warning flags? :-)

It seems that requiring an IN DL (at least for pistol sales) and a LTCH would be prudent, while requiring them to go through a FFL should virtually eliminate any liability. It boils down to how much risk you, as the seller, wish to accept.

 

[Sylvain]

Does not matter. Obviously, if you are a convicted felon you cannot legally possess, let alone purchase. But on the other end of the scale - an occasional marijuana user or an illegal alien - are you prohibited from purchasing a firearm? If you knowingly sell to someone who falls into either category?

I wasn't going to get into it, but what constitutes "due diligence" on the part of the seller? If the purchaser has a foreign accent? If they are driving a car with a "NORML" bumper sticker? How far do you, as a seller, have to go to insure that you are selling to a proper person?

A legal alien, without being a criminal, can be a prohibited person as well depending on his status.

 

[Sylvain]

So, someone who shows up with limited English skills, wearing a DOC orange jumpsuit and smoking a crack pipe should raise warning flags? :-)

It seems that requiring an IN DL (at least for pistol sales) and a LTCH would be prudent, while requiring them to go through a FFL should virtually eliminate any liability. It boils down to how much risk you, as the seller, wish to accept.

Most gun shops would close if they refused to sell guns to people with limited English skills.

You also find some illegal aliens with perfect English.Sometimes even native English speakers.

 

[gregr]

Most gun shops would close if they refused to sell guns to people with limited English skills.

You also find some illegal aliens with perfect English.Sometimes even native English speakers.

Yet, a gun store, and gun store clerk can refuse to make a sale to anyone they find suspicious by claiming they believe it to be a straw purchase. And if they have any reason at all to doubt the validity of the sale, they`d better refuse to make it.

 

[Taylor22]

Gee. We're leaning into UBC territory here