Car is possessed. Any mechanics???

[RedneckReject]

Ok so my car is a piece of crap and 20 years old. It's had several minor issues for quite some time but it's been a good car (for the most part) and I love the mileage. It's a 92 Escort GT. The GT is important because apparently that means all the parts for it are way more expensive than the other Escorts. Not too long ago, on election day, my significant other took the car one morning to go volunteer at the polls. When he was done he had planned on taking the car to the shop around the corner from our house to get a belt replaced. That morning, the car decided that the starter should engage every time you stepped on the clutch. That's obiously a problem. Fortunately the polls were right across the street from the shop so he was able to get it there without killing the starter by shifting gears.

Fast forward a couple hours. The fine gentlemen at the shop could not figure out what was going on so we decided to just move the clutch safety switch and put it underneath the dash, basically making it a push button start so long as the key was in the "on" position. Everything was fine. Fast forward several weeks. I got in the car this morning to run to the store. Put the key in, turned it to the "on" position, hit my switch under the dash....nothing. O...k. I held down the switch and actually turned the key further like I would do if I was starting a normal car. Fired right up. Drove to the store, got back in the car, and it started up like it has been the last month and a half (turn the key to "on", hit the switch). I thought nothing of it and figured it was just a fluke.

Fast forward another 12 hours. The man took my car to work today since it's better on mileage. At 12:15 in the morning I was informed that my car was dead and my sigificant other was stuck at work. I woke the kids up, got in his truck, and headed down to pick him up and see what was going on. It won't even crank. We tried jumping it just in case something was left on. Nothing. All the bells and whistles work fine it just won't crank. So it's freezing cold, I have my kids in the truck. My car is stuck.

What is wrong??? There's clearly some sort of ignition issue somewhere or we wouldn't have had the problem with the safety switch engaging the starter. I get that. We did end up getting the car home. Thank God I drive a stick and we were able to push it into the shopping center across the street and get up enough speed to pop it. We managed to pretty much destroy my rear bumper in the process but at least I got the car home instead of it being towed. We only live about a mile and a half from where he was working and everything was normal once I got it running. Well except for the stench of the e-brake which seems to be stuck all of a sudden. If anyone has any clues that would be awesome. I just lost my job at the beginning of the month and our savings are next to nothing so I can't afford a new car. I have to get this fixed because until I find more work we can't afford the fuel that his truck eats. Anybody have ideas besides that I'm screwed? I'm not a mechanic but I'm not automotive stupid either. I can usually figure out how to fix what's going on or at least rig it and make it work, but this car is just weird. No clue what to do. Help...

 

[GlockPaperScissors]

Well, that's definitely a mystery. I'm not a mechanic unfortunately so I'm not sure what is going on, but have you tried looking it up on Google? You'd be surprised at the answers you can find on there. My boyfriend's Ford Explorer was stuck in 4 wheel drive low a week ago and we managed to fix it by looking online for solutions.

 

[RedneckReject]

I tried Google first actually. Most of the results I get are "new battery". My battery is not even a year old so I doubt that is the issue. I am going to attempt to get it to the shop tomorrow and let them look at it. If I can get enough speed up on the sheet of ice that is my street, I can pop the clutch again and drive it around the corner to the shop we usually go to. It runs perfect once I get it started. It's just the starting that's the issue. I shouldn't complain. At least it's a manual and I CAN pop the clutch!

 

[remauto1187]

The replacement ignition LOCK (where you put your key in) shows to have an integrated igniton SWITCH. Its has few contacs unlike most cars/trucks. So that leads me to believe that the computer in the car is used to control the starter solenoid ignition switch terminal and lookout for the clutch safety switch input before doing so.

Im putting my money on the engine computer (also called ECM) but is now called a PCM on newer vehicles.

(ECM=engine control module)
(PCM=Powertrain control module) --controls transmission and engine

 

[po7g]

It could be the starter. Since you where able to pop the clutch that tells me that the ecm and the injectors are getting power. What you can do is find the starter on the car. Then take a piece of thick wire or a screw driver and jump the battery cable and the solenoid wire and see if the starter turns over, if it does then you could have a wire issue from the switch to the the solenoid, or it could be the switch.

 

[remauto1187]

Nope--- a "bad starter" would not continue to engage every time the clutch was pressed in. That symptom tells me that the ignition switch terminal of the solenoid on the starter is getting 12vdc...when it should not be (once the car is started and running). That 12vdc comes from the ECM which is ultimately initiated by the ignition switch.

Bad ECM. I will even break it down to the actual fault inside the ecm. Shorted transistor output for the starter solenoid igntion switch terminal.

 

[chezuki]

It could be the starter. Since you where able to pop the clutch that tells me that the ecm and the injectors are getting power. What you can do is find the starter on the car. Then take a piece of thick wire or a screw driver and jump the battery cable and the solenoid wire and see if the starter turns over, if it does then you could have a wire issue from the switch to the the solenoid, or it could be the switch.

Make sure it's out of gear first so you don't run yourself over.


I second the starter issue. Starters are often intermittent when they first start to fail.

Also, make sure your battery contacts are good and tight. If they are still the old kind made of lead, try replacing them. The extra electrical pull of the starter solenoid can cause the current to discharge when you turn the key and not engage the starter if there are any shorts or bad connections in the system.


EDIT: just re-read the op and have to agree with remauto1187. It sounds like your car is constantly sending the "start" signal to the starter solonoid, but it was being interrupted (as is should be) by the clutch safety switch, which you have bypassed with redneck engineering. I would be more inclined to believe it to be the actual ignition switch that is faulty though, not the ECM.

It's against the rules to link eBay, but there is a 92 escort gt ECM on there right now for $25 if you search for it. Found several sources for ignition switches as well with a google search.


P.S. I really should be sleeping. Stupid insomnia.

 

[Hammer]

It sounds like you have an electrical nightmare on your hands. I would take it to a competent shop and have them undo the red neck wiring and fix the problem/s.

 

[churchmouse]

The initial problem (clutch/starter) leads me to believe it is in the wiring harness and or the ECM. These cars can be very confusing at times. The age of the car and issues friends have had with their escorts makes me think this way. I have not a lot of experience with this model but from your description you need to have an electrical specialist look it over.

Edit...I love the red-neck wiring comment. Any time you do these kind of makeshift by-pass the safety repairs it is indicative of a deeper issue. To keep driving and relying on a car when this is going on will always lead to failure. These switch's and safety's have to be left in play for the ECM to properly read the systems in the car. Get it fixed by someone that is not scratching their heads over this.

 

[Suprtek]

EDIT: just re-read the op and have to agree with remauto1187. It sounds like your car is constantly sending the "start" signal to the starter solonoid, but it was being interrupted (as is should be) by the clutch safety switch, which you have bypassed with redneck engineering. I would be more inclined to believe it to be the actual ignition switch that is faulty though, not the ECM.

This. It would seem that part of the switch or related wiring has a short creating a condition as if you were driving down the road with the key turned to "start" and not just "on". I would also add that fords of this era are notorious for electrical issues. It seems that many of their parts, especially the parts required to handle high current are under-engineered.

The computer issue is not totally out of the question though. However, it could be something else affecting the computer and not the computer itself. I owned a couple of escorts although they were older than yours. One of them suddenly started doing all kinds of weird stuff like random dash lights blinking on and off, speedo and tach needles acting erratic, sometimes it would start and sometimes not. Turned out it was a shorted cell in the battery not providing proper current. In that case, you might think hooking up jumper cables to another car would make the problem go away as long as the cables were connected. Not so. The condition of the battery was causing it to put an excessive load on the alternator which continued to affect the entire electrical system.

Good luck and keep us posted. My money is on the ignition switch though. Its a common failure item.

 

[remauto1187]

This. It would seem that part of the switch or related wiring has a short creating a condition as if you were driving down the road with the key turned to "start" and not just "on". I would also add that fords of this era are notorious for electrical issues. It seems that many of their parts, especially the parts required to handle high current are under-engineered.

The computer issue is not totally out of the question though. However, it could be something else affecting the computer and not the computer itself. I owned a couple of escorts although they were older than yours. One of them suddenly started doing all kinds of weird stuff like random dash lights blinking on and off, speedo and tach needles acting erratic, sometimes it would start and sometimes not. Turned out it was a shorted cell in the battery not providing proper current. In that case, you might think hooking up jumper cables to another car would make the problem go away as long as the cables were connected. Not so. The condition of the battery was causing it to put an excessive load on the alternator which continued to affect the entire electrical system.

Good luck and keep us posted. My money is on the ignition switch though. Its a common failure item.

If this car wasnt a odd-ball ignition setup I would agree it was the ignition switch. But if you goto one of the aftermarket parts suppliers(autozone, advance, etc.) online and look at the ignition switch it only has 2 or 3 terminals on it UNLIKE a typical car/truck where the ignition switch is down on the steering column and has 12-20 wires coming off it. This Escort uses the computer (ECM) as basically the electrical switching where a typical vehicle uses its ignition switch only for that.

 

[Suprtek]

Clutch / starter interlock, 93 Escort - Ford Forum - Enthusiast Forums for Ford Owners

I found multiple places on line saying the same thing as this.

 

[fireball168]

There is an amazing amount of misinformation in this thread.


The ignition switch sends the start input to the clutch start switch on the black/dark blue.

The clutch start switch, closed with pedal depressed, sends the start input to the engine compartment fuse box on the black/red.

The black/red continues from the engine compartment fuse box to the starter solenoid.

**Irrelevant to the issue at hand, the black/red DOES go to the "Start Signal" fuse in the engine compartment fuse box and on to the EGI module and vane air meter. This is an INPUT, not an OUTPUT**

As previously mentioned, the ignition switch is the likely culprit. The Escorts were part of the recall for it on earlier models, I don't recall it extending to the 1992 model year. Regardless, about a $15 part.

To diagnose, nothing more than a test light is needed - there aren't any sensitive circuits in this system.

You've already got the clutch switch exposed, check for power on the black/dark blue at the clutch switch with the ignition in the start position.

If you've got nothing, remove the steering column cover and inspect the ignition switch and connector for signs of damage(heat). You'll know it(smell it) when you see it.

I can send you the REAL wiring diagram if it will help you out.

Bryan
(ex FoMoCo Field Service Engineer)

 

[SERparacord]

Ford Escort Owners Association

Escort forum, they may have an answer.

 

[RedneckReject]

Thanks for all the info. Like I stated before I was already aware that there are issues (most likely electrical) since the clutch safety was causing the starter to engage. At this point, it's obiously no longer doing that. I'm going to take it to the shop after Christmas as they don't really have time to do anything with it until then. I thought about the starter as well but haven't had a chance to get out there and properly tinker with it. At this point it's pretty much a given that the coming tax refund will be going toward the purchase of a new car. I'll keep posted on anything I find out. Will most likely go out and mess with it tomorrow when the man of the house has the day off and we can take our time to check everything over.

 

[HavokCycle]

sounds like electrical gremlins. can you push start it? thats the awesome thing about manual transmissions.

 

[RedneckReject]

sounds like electrical gremlins. can you push start it? thats the awesome thing about manual transmissions.

Yeah I was really thankful for that last night. I wouldn't have been able to get it home if it were an automatic and it most likely would have been towed. My rear bumper wasn't happy about it but I can replace plastic easily

 

[ranger justus]

I think your problem is the ignition switch It is located on the bottom of the ignition. You can test it for continuity. If you want let me know and I will try to fix it for you.
40 years in Dealer ships. Steve Justus 3174458316

 

[fireball168]

Steve is the man. Deal with confidence.

 

[NapalmFTW]

There is an amazing amount of misinformation in this thread.


The ignition switch sends the start input to the clutch start switch on the black/dark blue.

The clutch start switch, closed with pedal depressed, sends the start input to the engine compartment fuse box on the black/red.

The black/red continues from the engine compartment fuse box to the starter solenoid.

**Irrelevant to the issue at hand, the black/red DOES go to the "Start Signal" fuse in the engine compartment fuse box and on to the EGI module and vane air meter. This is an INPUT, not an OUTPUT**

As previously mentioned, the ignition switch is the likely culprit. The Escorts were part of the recall for it on earlier models, I don't recall it extending to the 1992 model year. Regardless, about a $15 part.

To diagnose, nothing more than a test light is needed - there aren't any sensitive circuits in this system.

You've already got the clutch switch exposed, check for power on the black/dark blue at the clutch switch with the ignition in the start position.

If you've got nothing, remove the steering column cover and inspect the ignition switch and connector for signs of damage(heat). You'll know it(smell it) when you see it.

I can send you the REAL wiring diagram if it will help you out.

Bryan
(ex FoMoCo Field Service Engineer)

THIS

I think your problem is the ignition switch It is located on the bottom of the ignition. You can test it for continuity. If you want let me know and I will try to fix it for you.
40 years in Dealer ships. Steve Justus 3174458316

THIS

Steve is the man. Deal with confidence.

and this.