Carrying Handgun License / Drivers License on your Person?

[m11]

Greetings, I'm new to the site, though I've been carrying in Indiana for over 15 years. I was wondering if anyone on here knows law with regard to carrying your permit on your person (and for that matter your driver's license). I'm in the process of digitizing most of my cards, etc. and trying to get to the point where I just carry my phone, and not my wallet with a zillion cards. I can immediately pull up an image of my carry permit, of my driver's license, etc. on my phone to present to a LEO, though I wouldn't necessarily have the physical license on my person.

As near as I can tell, at least with regard to the Indiana License to Carry Handgun, you do not need to carry it on your person. Specifically the law states "Sec. 1. (a) Except as provided in subsections (b) and (c) and section 2 of this chapter, a person shall not carry a handgun in any vehicle or on or about the person's body without being licensed under this chapter to carry a handgun." Being licensed is different than having a license on your person.

I couldn't find any other related threads from a search. I am not looking for opinions that state that you should carry it on your person, I'm looking for experiences from real life encounters, what the law states, and any relevant court cases associated. Thanks in advance!

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

Welcome to INGO!

 

[ATM]

The wording of the law changed this year to what you quoted, but the code dealing with providing proof of licensure still looks the same as it has for years.

IC 35-47-2-24
Indictment or information; defendant's burden to prove exemption or license; arrest, effect of production of valid license, or establishment of exemption
Sec. 24. (a) In an information or indictment brought for the enforcement of any provision of this chapter, it is not necessary to negate any exemption specified under this chapter, or to allege the absence of a license required under this chapter. The burden of proof is on the defendant to prove that he is exempt under section 2 of this chapter, or that he has a license as required under this chapter.
(b) Whenever a person who has been arrested or charged with a violation of section 1 of this chapter presents a valid license to the prosecuting attorney or establishes that he is exempt under section 2 of this chapter, any prosecution for a violation of section 1 of this chapter shall be dismissed immediately, and all records of an arrest or proceedings following arrest shall be destroyed immediately.
As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32.

 

[Hoosierdood]

1. Welcome to INGO!

2. You are not required by law to carry your LTCH on your person. That being said, if you are carrying a firearm without carrying your LTCH, you may have your firearm confiscated until such a time that you can produce your valid LTCH. I don't know whether an LEO would accept a digital picture of your LTCH or not. It may just depend on the LEO.

3. You are not required by law to carry identification with you per the 4th amendment. However, if you are operating a motor vehicle, I am not sure that a digital copy of your driver's license would be sufficient. Your state issued ID has anti-fraud watermarks and other security features that a LEO cannot verify from a digital image.

4. As per this thread https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...river_license_check_returns_carry_permit.html it has been verified by several LEO's on this board that a check of your driver's license via IDACS will show that you have also been issued a LTCH. You may want to carry your driver's license as that may very well cover both your DL and LTCH.

5. Something to consider...do you really want to hand over your phone along with all the info on it to a LEO during a traffic stop?

 

[m11]

Thanks ATM that's good to know. So at least if anything were to happen as a result of not having it on your person, it would all be thrown out.

However, that leads to the question/concern that it's essentially at the officer's discretion as to whether or not he would charge someone under that chapter or not. I know through IDACS they can confirm that an individual does or does not have a license, so between that and seeing a digital image of the license, one would tend to think/hope that a LEO would not want to go through the hassle & legal exposure of charging someone when it's obvious that the charges would be thrown out.

Hmm...

 

[rockhopper46038]

I keep mine on me, but that section of I.C has just been memorized for use if ever necessary.

 

[rockhopper46038]

Somewhat related, I did have a woman present an image of their DL on their phone to me as proof of legal drinking age. This was decided NOT covered in Safeserv class. I declined to let her enter, but would like to know for future reference if this is considered a valid copy of a DL (whether for driving, proof of age, whatever). I would think it far too easy to photoshop.

 

[Sylvain]

If you are carrying a gun, have your LTCH on you.
If you are driving a car, have your DL on you.

That's important documents to have and you could get in trouble if you cant show it to a LEO when asked.
Having a picture of the licence is just like not having the licence on you in my opinion.
Would you carry a picture of your gun in your phone to save weight?
I dont think you would.Carry the actual physical licence, a picture of the licence doesn't have any legal value.
If you just want to save weight by not carrying a wallet then why do you carry a heavy gun on you?
The LTCH and the gun go together.
A gun without a LTCH could lead you to jail, a LTCH without a gun could get you killed.
Be smart and carry both.

 

[m11]

1. Welcome to INGO!

5. Something to consider...do you really want to hand over your phone along with all the info on it to a LEO during a traffic stop?

Thanks Hoosierdood, that information definitely helps. To your point about handing over the phone... I think the intelligent thing to do would be to present the image to the officer by showing them, not physically handing over your phone.

I'm also a pilot, and I've been told instructors that you never hand your pilot's license to an FAA employee, you always hold it in your hand and show it to them. That way, if they ever want to revoke it, they have to send you a letter / go through the process, but if you physically hand it to them they can just keep it in order to revoke it.

 

[DRob]

Driver's license

You are required to have your driver's license in your possession when driving.

IC 9-24-13-3
Possession and display of licenses and permits
Sec. 3. An individual holding a permit or license issued under this article must have the permit or license in the individual's immediate possession when driving or operating a motor vehicle. The permittee or licensee shall display the license or permit upon demand of a court or a police officer authorized by law to enforce motor vehicle rules.
As added by P.L.2-1991, SEC.12.

 

[m11]

If you are carrying a gun, have your LTCH on you.
If you are driving a car, have your DL on you.

That's important documents to have and you could get in trouble if you cant show it to a LEO when asked.
Having a picture of the licence is just like not having the licence on you in my opinion.
Would you carry a picture of your gun in your phone to save weight?
I dont think you would.Carry the actual physical licence, a picture of the licence doesn't have any legal value.
If you just want to save weight by not carrying a wallet then why do you carry a heavy gun on you?
The LTCH and the gun go together.
A gun without a LTCH could lead you to jail, a LTCH without a gun could get you killed.
Be smart and carry both.

This the kind of comment I specifically was not looking for... pure opinion / speculation. :-) BTW, the time is coming when digital copies of those items MUST be honored by law (just like digital signatures / acceptances must be honored now)... we're not there yet when it comes to drivers licenses, etc. but we are getting close, just like the new phones that support Visa/MC purchases via NFC technology.

 

[Sylvain]

This the kind of comment I specifically was not looking for... pure opinion / speculation. :-) BTW, the time is coming when digital copies of those items MUST be honored by law (just like digital signatures / acceptances must be honored now)... we're not there yet when it comes to drivers licenses, etc. but we are getting close, just like the new phones that support Visa/MC purchases via NFC technology.

I didn't mean to be rude.Sorry if I was.I just thought you wanted to know what menbers think about that, so yes it's just my opinion.

But if you want a fact, like you said it yourself, we are not there yet when it comes to DL and digital copies, so why you would do it now.
Wait until the time is here, then you will be sure it's legal.

Welcome to INGO btw!

 

[m11]

I didn't mean to be rude.Sorry if I was.I just thought you wanted to know what menbers think about that, so yes it's just my opinion.

But if you want a fact, like you said it yourself, we are not there yet when it comes to DL and digital copies, so why you would do it now.
Wait until the time is here, then you will be sure it's legal.

Welcome to INGO btw!

No problem, thanks for the welcome, it sounds like the official answer to the question "do you need it on your person" is DL: YES, and LTCH: NO. Well that was half the answer I was looking for.

Would still be interested in real world experiences on the matter.

 

[billybob44]

New Idea??

Any of you enterprising holster makers want to introduce a new holster with a slot to hold a persons DL AND LTCH???

Sounds like a seller to me???Bill..

 

[m11]

Any of you enterprising holster makers want to introduce a new holster with a slot to hold a persons DL AND LTCH???

Sounds like a seller to me???Bill..

LOL!

 

[Sylvain]

No problem, thanks for the welcome, it sounds like the official answer to the question "do you need it on your person" is DL: YES, and LTCH: NO. Well that was half the answer I was looking for.

Would still be interested in real world experiences on the matter.

Well try it out and tell us how it turned out if you feel like it.
Or are you waiting for one of us to try for you before you give it a try yourself?

Depending on what type of gun you are carrying you can even carry your LTCH inside the gun, folded into the grip.
This way you always have it with your gun, no need to carry a wallet.
If asked by a LEO just ask him if he has a screwdriver to remove the grip so that you can show him the licence.

 

[canav844]

If wallet is too heavy, place on side opposite gun, buy larger guns to balance and lighten wallet until problem is solved.

The applicable statutes have been covered, but remember is you don't carry your paper LTCH and visit a state that honors your LTCH you may need to have the actual license on your person, so its one more law to check before travel.

Welcome to INGO.

 

[strut70]

I can immediately pull up an image of my carry permit, of my driver's license, etc. on my phone to present to a LEO, though I wouldn't necessarily have the physical license on my person.

All is good untill your battery goes dead

 

[railbug]

Got pulled over the other day, had gun in glove box, officer did not want or look at my carry license. He said he would pull it up on his computer in his car.

 

[m11]

Got pulled over the other day, had gun in glove box, officer did not want or look at my carry license. He said he would pull it up on his computer in his car.

That's good to know.