Carrying Handgun License / Drivers License on your Person?

[VUPDblue]

1. You're in Lake County, so you may as well be part of Chicago, and I'm not really surprised with regard to your attitude.

2. You'll hear about later when you get sued under IC 34-13-342 and/or U.S.C. §1983 for false arrest, especially since (provided the person was not operating a motor vehicle) they are NOT required by law to have either Driver's License or LTCH in their possession. Additionally, the citizen would have gone above and beyond their legal requirements by showing you and image of their DL AND LTCH. Pretty sure you'd lose that battle, and possibly your job if you took that approach.

Sorry but no, they wouldn't have. The state does not, by statute (or lack thereof specifically), recognize electronic copies of any of the above mentioned documents.

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

OK. I've been following this thread and I keep wondering why...

What is the advantage of not having to carry a little pink piece of paper and a DL?

What am I missing here?

 

[m11]

What makes you think the officer is not going to take your phone back to the car? While in the car he will flip through it.

Technology is fine. Technology to have technology will accomplish nothing and just complicate matters.

Umm a LEO can't just TAKE your property. That's called illegal seizure. If you don't hand it to him, they can't TAKE it.

 

[m11]

Sorry but no, they wouldn't have. The state does not, by statute (or lack thereof specifically), recognize electronic copies of any of the above mentioned documents.

I think you're missing the point. In the aforementioned scenario you are NOT reuqired to have your DL or LTCH on your person, therefore showing an electronic copy is going above and beyond.

 

[JettaKnight]

Great thread. I really appreciate this. The wife and I walk in the evenings frequently and she strongly encouraged me to get a LTCH to allow legal carry to ward off any wild dogs (or people). It will be much less of a hassle to not have to worry about this. I don't open carry anyway and issues won't arise unless I have to use the weapon I suppose. .. Again, much appreciated.

Not to hijack, but, you really should get your LTCH. Have you taken a pistol to a shooting range before July 1? If so, that's a violation of Indiana law. Besides, the Indiana license is comparatively inexpensive and easy to get. The more holders there are the more impressive the statistic is for our side of the 2A debate.

 

[m11]

OK. I've been following this thread and I keep wondering why...

What is the advantage of not having to carry a little pink piece of paper and a DL?

What am I missing here?

The question is with regard to not carrying a wallet, not only those two items, though those two items are the most troublesome from a legal perspective, hence the thread.

 

[rw496]

Does your MDT not pull up the BMV pic of the person with the DL? That is, cant you verify that the person is or appears to be who he claims to be?

Blessings,
Bill

no it doesn't just the info. Sometimes if we have an in-house mug shot I can pull that up

 

[rw496]

You might find this unbelievable, but up here people on the street occasionally lie about who they are an even memorize friends info. You got a gun on you and no picture ID AND gun permit you will be spending the night in county. You will have to prove to the prosecutor you were licensed and I will probably never hear about the case again

That came across more cynical than it was intended so I will backpedal a bit. As I was envisioning a scenario where this might occur it was more like working midnights in some of these rough neighborhoods during a traffic stop where I either found a gun subsequent to a lawful search or in open view or on the driver who can't remember his date of birth exactly or his address, but has a crusty piece of pink paper with someone's name on it. The last thing any cop I know wants to do is lock up a law abiding citizen exercising their right to bear arms, but forgot their license at home because they were running to the store. I believe in acting in good faith and if I believe in good faith this person is lying I will probably lock them up. I have found fake gun permits, stolen permits, etc. I really think the State should come up with something better, like a DL format.

 

[Hoosierdood]

Another question - would you carry your actual DL while driving, or would you only have your electronic copy while driving a vehicle?

I ask this because I have never seen an officer ask for ID and NOT take it back to his car to run your info. If you are pulled over he WILL want to take your ID so that he can run your info on his computer, rather than just going by memory. This would not be illegal seizure of your property.

On the other hand, an officer cannot demand/take your ID if you are not being detained for suspicion of illegal activity. Your electronic ID may work for everything else. However, in the context of being stopped by LEO... chances are that you are being stopped for suspicion of a violation of Indiana Code. If that is the case, the LEO can demand your ID, and can take it into his possession. If you want to argue that it would be illegal seizure, then I would simply suggest that you try it and let us know how it works out.

All that being said, I would summarize my opinion by saying that it seems to be too big a risk. The advantages of NOT carrying your actual ID and LTCH pale in comparison to the hassle that you may get if you are stopped by LEO.

 

[ATM]

That came across more cynical than it was intended so I will backpedal a bit.

Good to hear, and this explanation sounds much better. The first version sounded like you would automatically lump every gun carrier who forgot their wallet or those who could possibly be guilty of a misdemeanor at most (carrying without being licensed to do so by the State) the same as those suspected of worse or with ill intent.

I really think the State should come up with something better, like a DL format.

Better, IMHO, would be to not require a license at all - Constitutional carry.

 

[SideArmed]

Great thread. I really appreciate this. The wife and I walk in the evenings frequently and she strongly encouraged me to get a LTCH to allow legal carry to ward off any wild dogs (or people). It will be much less of a hassle to not have to worry about this. I don't open carry anyway and issues won't arise unless I have to use the weapon I suppose. .. Again, much appreciated.

Wait.... are you saying that you don't need a LTCH because you don't open carry and it is too much of a hassle to get one? Just want to make sure I understand where you are coming from.

Because if I am understanding that correctly, there is a clear admission to breaking the law on your part. So I emplore you to go out and get a LTCH before you take anymore walks while you are conceal carrying a firearm. Get some OC spray while you are waiting for the licence to get it.

 

[m11]

Good to hear, and this explanation sounds much better. The first version sounded like you would automatically lump every gun carrier who forgot their wallet or those who could possibly be guilty of a misdemeanor at most (carrying without being licensed to do so by the State) the same as those suspected of worse or with ill intent.

Better, IMHO, would be to not require a license at all - Constitutional carry.

Ultimately I have no doubt that the time will come in which there is the ability to digitally certify a drivers license as valid, probably in the form NFC or similar. It would be very easy for the officer to use his phone to exchange an encrypted data stream with your phone (simply bump it) and verify the validity of the data, the same way the MasterCard PayPass & Visa Mobile system works. His phone then could even check the status with IDACS in real-time. That is coming, just not here yet. So my question is mainly... what to do between now and then, to bridge that gap.

 

[bwframe]

OK, so at least for now, it's important to carry hard copies of DL and LTCH. Is there a down side to having a digital doc of these on your phone?

 

[JettaKnight]

Ultimately I have no doubt that the time will come in which there is the ability to digitally certify a drivers license as valid, probably in the form NFC or similar. It would be very easy for the officer to use his phone to exchange an encrypted data stream with your phone (simply bump it) and verify the validity of the data, the same way the MasterCard PayPass & Visa Mobile system works. His phone then could even check the status with IDACS in real-time. That is coming, just not here yet. So my question is mainly... what to do between now and then, to bridge that gap.

I think that gap is a quantum leap in the true sense sense of that term meaning there is no intermediate step.

<rant>
Besides, look at how up in arms everyone was when the State Dept. starting adding RFID chips in passports. Ironically, we're all to happy to give personal information to the same corporation we vilify and use semi-secure whizbangs for monetary transactions. But, we a government organization tries? Out comes every conspiracy nut. Newsflash: big brother isn't the govt., it's private industry.
</rant>

Honestly, I don't care about any of this paranoia.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Umm a LEO can't just TAKE your property. That's called illegal seizure. If you don't hand it to him, they can't TAKE it.

I'll remind the prosecution of that on my next Possession of Marijuana.

 

[Rookie]

I'll remind the prosecution of that on my next Possession of Marijuana.

You got a bit of a problem with reefer? Admitting is the first step.

All together now, "hi Kirk".

 

[Kirk Freeman]

You got a bit of a problem with reefer? Admitting is the first step.

I got problems with reefer, alcohol, pills, horse, meth, coke, sid, inter alia.

Most of the problems are with cops and prosecutors.

 

[Rookie]

What's horse and Sid?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Heroin (horse) and LSD (sid, sidney, acid).

See more and more H.

 

[ATM]

Sid was Nancy's boyfriend.