Carrying with one in chamber and bedside manners

[HighStrung]

Having young children of my own (ages 1 & 3) we decided to get a small digital entry safe for our bedroom. It stays on my side of the bed, but usually it's only my wifes gun is in there. Mine is either on my person, or laying on top of our armoire (which is only at night after the kids are asleep). I carry with one in the chamber and my M&P40C has no ext safety. Keep your finger off the bang switch and you won't have any problems.

 

[jim2100]

If you cannot afford one of the mini gun safes for your pistol, look for one of the small document safes at hardware stores. They typically run about $30. Get one with a double-sided key that is easy to insert without looking at it. Lock your gun in the safe on the floor or nightstand and keep the key on a rubber band around your wrist.

Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 34

That is exactly the answer. I saw one yesterday at Cabela's. Any office supply store has them. Double sided keys sound really good too. If there are kids in the house, guns should be in a safe. Just think. How many times has someone come into your home while you were sleeping? So the likelihood that you will need a gun is low.
I live in Gary, In.,a pretty high crime area, and I have never felt the need for a gun. True I have both at my bed side. I am single and will still probably will get the cheap Safe by Sentry. Wal-Mart has it for $15.00 Here


" Always carry, Never tell "

 

[Jack Ryan]

A little background first, After being laid off for 12 months i had to sell my Bersa 380. After some time i purchased a Hi-Point 9mm, which i have had for around 8 months.

Now Im not sure about other pistols but the HP has a thumb slide thingy that pushes up and stops the slide from moving.( the bersa had a hammer and a safety) When i CC i never have one in the chamber because i am afraid that i could accidently flip the safety off and discharge the weapon. So my dilema is, if i get in a situation where i need to pull my weapon, i will have to unholster and then load a round.

Secondly I have two kids ages 2 and 6, and when i go to bed i put my pistol into a frame about 5ft up on the wall about 4ft from the bed. I would like to have it in my nightstand right next to me in some kind of safe that is quickly accesible but yet protected from small hands.

I know HP doesnt have the best reputation, but to be honest it has less FTF/FTE than my Bersa did, and i actually like it.


So my 2 questions are:

1. How can i carry safely, but yet be more prepared?

2. Any suggestions on how to have my pistol closer to me when i sleep?


Thanks in advance, I love coming to this site everyday and learning!!

I don't generally recomend a 380 but if that's what you want you should buy one of those Browning BDA 380 for sale in the classifieds. I own a nickle plated one. It fires single or double action and has a decocking safety.

 

[Don252]

You can never be to safe, put the gun some where that the kids can't reach it or get to it. You can nevr be to safe, on in the chamber ready to go, you carry to protect yourself and you family, unless you've got a good arm and can throw it at them, it might as well be ready to shoot. As other have stated though, don't do anything your not comfortable with. You got several good suggestions on how to get comfortable. Good luck.

 

[darinb]

I actually have always carried with one in the chamber antil a couple weeks ago. I have now started carrying a tokarev which has no external safety it only has a half cock, I just dont trust the half cock. I carry the tokarev because it fits my hand perectly and is very accurate and reliable. I have been exposed before to the israeli carry and loading method but never really saw a need for it antil now. I carry the tokarev with no round in the chamber and after a couple weeks practicing drawing and loading from standing to the ground positions it is now almost muscle memory. My only real concern with the israeli draw was drawing and cocking if you only had one arm to work with but because the rear sights are quite high it is very easy to rack the slide on your belt. As with anything training yourself is the key. It is amazing what we will adapt to and learn if you mentally AND physically train yourself. In short carry the way you feel most comfortable and train to be perfect at every aspects of it.

 

[YogiRC51]

Great advice for everyone. It took awhile to get comfortable just carrying a gun let along comfortable to carry with one in the camber. Like most have said a good holster and training.

Glad to see so many people thinking about they're kids. Get some kind of safe/vault.

 

[Bondhead88]

A little background first, After being laid off for 12 months i had to sell my Bersa 380. After some time i purchased a Hi-Point 9mm, which i have had for around 8 months.

Now Im not sure about other pistols but the HP has a thumb slide thingy that pushes up and stops the slide from moving.( the bersa had a hammer and a safety) When i CC i never have one in the chamber because i am afraid that i could accidently flip the safety off and discharge the weapon. So my dilema is, if i get in a situation where i need to pull my weapon, i will have to unholster and then load a round.

Secondly I have two kids ages 2 and 6, and when i go to bed i put my pistol into a frame about 5ft up on the wall about 4ft from the bed. I would like to have it in my nightstand right next to me in some kind of safe that is quickly accesible but yet protected from small hands.

I know HP doesnt have the best reputation, but to be honest it has less FTF/FTE than my Bersa did, and i actually like it.


So my 2 questions are:

1. How can i carry safely, but yet be more prepared?

2. Any suggestions on how to have my pistol closer to me when i sleep?


Thanks in advance, I love coming to this site everyday and learning!!

Try looking into these.

Product from Stealth Vault, LLC.

 

[Coydog]

I never carry anything with one in the chamber. When I want to unload all I have to do is drop the magazine.

As for the night stand.Leave the gun in there unloaded and the loaded magazine somewhere else. The only real advantage to an automatic is faster reloads.

 

[Stainer]

The isreali method would be great, but you never know what the situation might be. What if you are using the other hand to push your attacker back? Or what if you are using that hand to push your family or an innocent out of the way? Or what if you have something in your non-shooting hand and you have never practiced a situation where you might have to drop something(your instincts will be to tighten up on whatever is in your hand which will waste more time)? This world is full of "what ifs" but I don't want my life to rely on a false pretense that I will have both hands free.

YouTube - Hand Placement with Close Quarters Shooting.mov

 

[PatriotPride]

I never carry anything with one in the chamber. When I want to unload all I have to do is drop the magazine.

As for the night stand.Leave the gun in there unloaded and the loaded magazine somewhere else. The only real advantage to an automatic is faster reloads.

Ok. Not a good reason to carry unloaded, so to speak. Everyone has their own comfort levels.

The only real advantage? Try capacity as well.

 

[Coydog]

Capacity is not a real advantage for self defense. Good for drivebys and movies, however.

 

[finity]

Two things, if you were carrying a Revolver, you wouldn't even worry
about a round being chambered, Carry how YOU are comfortable.....
About the night, if your child cannot rack the slide, no gun lock is needed. When your child can rack the slide, then is when you need to worry.....

And how will you know EXACTLY when your child WILL be able to rack the slide? Do you test them everyday?

Relying on them not being able to rack the slide or pull the trigger of a DA gun is asking for trouble.

When your kids are little there is no best case scenario. You can't leave it out & you can't carry it on you (unless you're OK sleeping with a hunk of metal on your side). The best you can hope for is to have time to get to it if you need it.

If you have a round in the chamber or not, it doesn't matter. A GUN IS ALWAYS LOADED.

Yes, yes. We all know the "Four Rules" but that's not what this is about. Of course you always* treat a gun while handling it as if it's loaded. When it comes to actually using it for self-defense, though, a gun that isn't loaded (chambered) really ISN'T LOADED no matter how much you treat it like it is.

* unless it has been verified during cleaning, etc.

If I were to decide to carry a Glock without one in the chamber, I would make sure the trigger is pulled. That way, when I am trying to pull the trigger while the bad guy is shooting me, I can used the already pulled trigger as a clue to rack the slide first, because I will have forgotten in the stress of the situation.

(or you forgot the purple!)

If that's the case then there really is pretty much no point in carrying.

I never carry anything with one in the chamber.

Why not? I can understand that when someone is, as is the OP above, new to carrying or handling guns but after a (very short) while you should be able to gain the confidence in yourself & your equipment to move past that fear (& I assume that's what the reason is) & carry your gun in the best possible condition for it's intended purpose.

When I want to unload all I have to do is drop the magazine.

I can't see where the ease of unloading is a good trade-off for the HUGE disadvantage of not having the gun ready to go when you really need it.

When I want to unload mine all I have to do is drop the mag & rack the slide. It's easy. I don't see that being so much more difficult that your way is an advantage.

As for the night stand.Leave the gun in there unloaded and the loaded magazine somewhere else.

If you're going to go to all that trouble there really is not much difference between that & putting it LOADED in a bedside quick access safe...except the safe may even be faster.

The only real advantage to an automatic is faster reloads.

There are many advantages to a semi-auto, along with a (very) few disadvantages.

If you discount the capacity as being an advantage during an "average" SD situation then theoretically you wouldn't even need a gun & then you wouldn't need any more than a 2 shot derringer.

While I wouldn't choose to carry a derringer for SD I also wouldn't choose to constantly carry 3 handguns, 2 rifles & 500 rounds of reloads, either. There is a balance where each is comfortable with what they carry. But to say that magazine capacity is NO advantage at all is just silly. Of course it's an advantage. It's just one that you don't seem to hold in high regard.

 

[cburnworth]

my edc is a llama minimax .40 i always have it a round chambered & ready. the iwb I use has a strap to go across the safety. if the gun is not on my hip when i am awake it is very close to me. when I am sleeping it is loaded & under the corner of the mattress. as far as kid's go this particular gun has 2 safeties, a thumb safety & a palm safety. The thumb safety would be the easiest for either of my kids to disable, but i don't think that they could push the palm of their little hands tight enough to the gun & then be able to pull the trigger.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

#1, carry whatever firearm you want however you want

#2, Even the Israeli police/military has done away with carrying in such a manner

#3, should learn the reasons behind the "Israeli style" carry and why it's no longer used

#4, training can overcome some of the issues with the above

#5, let's see you successfully rack the slide under a massive adrenaline dump

#6, let's see you successfully draw, rack the slide, and fire with your weak-hand only; there is absolutely positively NO guarantee that you'll have two functioning hands/arms at the time when you may need them the most.

#7, I carry an appropriate and safe firearm with no manual safety. Round chambered 100% of the time. Point, click, and boom.

Carrying a firearm isn't some kind of magic talisman against the boogy man. Even carrying a gun and receiving defensive firearms training won't ward off problems.

Ever hear the old tome "The best laid plans of mice and men...?" Or how about "Battle plans inevitably change with the first shot"?

Plan for what you will, but if I can lessen the steps and un-complicate things by carrying chambered, then I certainly will.

-J-

 

[Cheapdiesel]

I carry my hi point c9 everyday (for about 4 years now) in an inexpensive soft belt holster with one in the chamber. The saftey has never moved (thumb thingy you mentioned) nor has it ever accidentally discharged. You have nothing to worry about. As far as night time and sleeping I keep mine on top of my dresser in the holster with a flashlight next to it. My small children cannot reach it and my older children know where it is and how to use it. But, I agree with everyone else you do what you think is right.

 

[indyjoe]

If you have a round in the chamber or not, it doesn't matter. A GUN IS ALWAYS LOADED.

Yes, yes. We all know the "Four Rules" but that's not what this is about. Of course you always* treat a gun while handling it as if it's loaded. When it comes to actually using it for self-defense, though, a gun that isn't loaded (chambered) really ISN'T LOADED no matter how much you treat it like it is.

* unless it has been verified during cleaning, etc.

Sorry, got to think what I wrote back 4 months ago in context.....

Well your comment is pretty obvious. My comment was about how you treat the gun, yours about how it functions. My point was that you don't treat a gun any less safe, just because you aren't carrying a round in it. Doing so is a recipe for a negligent discharge.

If I were to decide to carry a Glock without one in the chamber, I would make sure the trigger is pulled. That way, when I am trying to pull the trigger while the bad guy is shooting me, I can used the already pulled trigger as a clue to rack the slide first, because I will have forgotten in the stress of the situation.

(or you forgot the purple!)

If that's the case then there really is pretty much no point in carrying.

If you carry Israel style and DO NOT practice drawing with a rack and then firing, the scenario I outline is EXACTLY what will happen under stress. Having the trigger back will at least clue you into the fact that there is no round in the chamber, possibly faster than actually aiming and pulling the trigger to a *click*.

If the shocked and face palm is to indicate that my statement is obvious, I agree. There is no purple needed, because I believe that carrying without one in the pipe and NOT TRAINING that way is stupid. To me there are more arguments for carrying with one in the chamber than not.

I must be missing something, as your post seem to agree with my viewpoint? Or is it because of my type where "I am trying to pull the trigger while the bad guy is shooting me" should be "I am trying to pull the trigger while the bad guy is shooting at me".

Confused...

I carry my hi point c9 everyday (for about 4 years now) in an inexpensive soft belt holster with one in the chamber. The saftey has never moved (thumb thingy you mentioned) nor has it ever accidentally discharged. You have nothing to worry about. As far as night time and sleeping I keep mine on top of my dresser in the holster with a flashlight next to it. My small children cannot reach it and my older children know where it is and how to use it. But, I agree with everyone else you do what you think is right.

Personally, I'll never use a cheap soft holster ever again. I've had a gun "squirt" out of one of those and land muzzle down with enough inertia to allow the firing pin to touch off the round. It was a fairly small pistol, which is harder to keep in a bad holster. It was the last time I skimp on a holster.

 

[Coydog]

I'm not a hired gun and I don't live in condition red.
No need to carry one in the chamber. If I'm carrying at all my preparedness is way above being unarmed. I won't have to go home and get my gun. All I have to do is prime it.

I'm usually unarmed so a one shot derringer would be a comfort any time. It's funny that those who must be armed with the latest technology allow themselves to be disarmed so often. School zones, government buildings stores with signs posted are all disarming. Those high capacity automatics spend more time in the car or in the safe than some want to admit.

There are more instances of accidental discharge loading and unloading automatics than from unloaded guns that aren't unloaded. If you carry with one in the chamber and don't want it loaded around the children then you're going to have to jack the one out of the chamber. Before you get too casual about that it is a good idea to have a bucket of sand to perform all this activity over to catch any accidental discharges.

 

[Sailor]

I hope you are back to work. If you can afford it, get a safe that does not require a battery. Something like this. Top Draw

Then I would get some training.

 

[finity]

If you carry Israel style and DO NOT practice drawing with a rack and then firing, the scenario I outline is EXACTLY what will happen under stress. Having the trigger back will at least clue you into the fact that there is no round in the chamber, possibly faster than actually aiming and pulling the trigger to a *click*.

If the shocked and face palm is to indicate that my statement is obvious, I agree. There is no purple needed, because I believe that carrying without one in the pipe and NOT TRAINING that way is stupid. To me there are more arguments for carrying with one in the chamber than not.

I must be missing something, as your post seem to agree with my viewpoint? Or is it because of my type where "I am trying to pull the trigger while the bad guy is shooting me" should be "I am trying to pull the trigger while the bad guy is shooting at me".

Confused...

The & was because if you're to the point of the BG already shooting at you when you try to pull the trigger THEN realize that there's no round in the chamber, you've ALREADY lost.

It looks like we both agree on that but whether the gun is cocked or not in the situation you put forth will make ABSOLUTELY no difference in the final outcome. The 1/4 second of difference between putting your finger on the trigger & realizing there's no bullet or putting your finger on the trigger & pulling it & realizing there's no bullet is inconsequential. The only thing you can hope for at that point is that the BG is a terrible shot. Otherwise, you're pretty much ALREADY DEAD.

I'm not a hired gun and I don't live in condition red.

Me neither.

No need to carry one in the chamber. If I'm carrying at all my preparedness is way above being unarmed.

I won't have to go home and get my gun. All I have to do is prime it.

I will grant you that there ARE times (very RARE times) when you MAY have time to rack a round into the chamber. Those times are the exception & not the rule (outside of a burglary-type scenario which may give you a little extra time). Have I mentioned how rare those times are in real SD situations?

The vast majority of times when we, as non-LEO/non-military individuals, would need to actually use our guns, we need them NOW! BG's don't send a messenger ahead to warn us of their intentions. The vast majority of times, even with the superhuman "100% situational awareness" that many think they'll have when it happens, you'll have NO TIME to react. To think that you'll be able to have the additional time necessary to rack a round into the chamber, especially when your fine motor skills go out the window due to adrenalin, is just wishful thinking.

Not carrying a round in the chamber does nothing more than give you a false sense of security. In that respect carrying a gun that is NOT fully ready to go when you need it NOW! is WORSE than not carrying. At least if you're not carrying at all you won't give the BG an additional reason to shoot/stab you when he sees you pull out a (almost useless) gun. He's thinking "I have to shoot/stab him or he'll shoot me". He's not going to wait around while you fumble with the slide.

If you need to go home & get your gun you're not in a real SD situation & you wouldn't legally be able to use it then, anyway.

I'm usually unarmed so a one shot derringer would be a comfort any time. It's funny that those who must be armed with the latest technology allow themselves to be disarmed so often. School zones, government buildings stores with signs posted are all disarming. Those high capacity automatics spend more time in the car or in the safe than some want to admit.

I'm usually unarmed as well. At work, at home, school functions, etc. are places that I can't (or don't choose to) carry. But again you're missing the point. During the times that I am able to be armed I want my gun to be ready to go NOW! Otherwise it's actually worse to carry than to not. It would be the same as someone carrying a gun that they don't have the intestinal fortitude to actually use when needed. Those are the ones that get killed with their own guns & would actually be better off to NOT carry.

As to "the latest technology" comment - you do realize semi-auto's have been around for over 100 years, right?

There are more instances of accidental discharge loading and unloading automatics than from unloaded guns that aren't unloaded.

You're right. So why is there a need to constantly load & unload? Just keep it loaded & that problem is solved.

It also solves the problem of carrying a gun that could actually do more harm than good when (or if) you actually need it.

Two birds, one stone. I don't see the down side.

If you carry with one in the chamber and don't want it loaded around the children then you're going to have to jack the one out of the chamber. Before you get too casual about that it is a good idea to have a bucket of sand to perform all this activity over to catch any accidental discharges.

Why not have it loaded around the children? If it's on you or in a safe then there's no concern. Are the children less scared of an unloaded gun than they are a loaded one? (I hope not - remember Rule #1 of the 4 Rules). How could they tell the difference unless they were handling it? It's not like the gun is going to take on a mind of it's own & just go on a child killing spree. I carry around my kids & grandkids & not once have they been in any danger. It's not like I let them play with it or anything.

Like I said, I can understand someone who is new to gun handling being leery of carrying a chambered round. But after a fairly short period of time you should gain the confidence in your equipment & yourself to be able to not have the irrational fear that the gun is going to just go off all by itself or you're going to somehow randomly & uncontrollably pull the trigger while pointing it at your kids. If you don't have that absolute minimum amount of confidence then maybe you should rethink the idea of carrying in the first place.

 

[tom1025]

If you don't carry a live round in the chamber then what is the point.