CCW at the new airport (cont'd)

[Drail]

Howdy kids. I started this thread a week ago about the legality or not of CCW at the new airport and during my work travels since then I now believe it is verboten. Every door I passed through was posted "NO WEAPONS" with a outline of a pistol and a knife with a diagonal line slashed through it. Anybody know when and where this came from?

 

[pmpmstrb]

They can post as many signs or stickers as they want, but in Indiana they don't mean squat. The only point of the sign is to tell people their position on guns. All they can do is ask you to leave and if you refuse, then they can have you arrested for trespassing.

 

[ralphb72]

Can they? Is a public airport or a private airport? I would think if it is public property they would not be able to have you trespassed for not obeying a sign that has no legal meaning.

 

[pmpmstrb]

I would think that all airports are private as they are a business. They can ask you to leave for any reason at any time. In this case the reason would be for carrying a "weapon". If you fail to leave after being asked it would be considered trespassing, but merely having a "weapon" is not grounds for anything other then sheeple panicking. As long as it isn't federal property (post office, city county building), school property, or behind the metal detectors at the airport you can carry anywhere you want to.

 

[ralphb72]

I understand what you are saying and agree, AND I know that in Indiana cities and towns can pass a law banning carry on "The property that they own, ie parks, city hall etc.. BUT look at the quote below, this says it is a municipal corporation, is that stuck in the cracks somewhere? Since they are municipal corp, does that make it private property that they can control, public property that they cannot, or public property which "someone" could legally pass a law banning carry there?



INDIANAPOLIS AIRPORT AUTHORITY
Established as a municipal corporation by the General Assembly in 1962, the Indianapolis Airport Authority (IAA) owns, develops, and operates six airports in the Indianapolis metropolitan area. They include Indianapolis International Airport, Metropolitan Airport, Mt. Comfort Airport, Eagle Creek Airpark, Hendricks County Airport–Gordon Graham Field, and the Downtown Heliport.

The IAA is governed by a board of eight voting members appointed by the mayor of Indianapolis and officials from Marion and Hendricks counties. The board also has three non-voting members representing Hamilton, Hancock and Morgan counties.

2008 MEETING SCHEDULE
The IAA Board of Directors meets twice monthly at 8:30 a.m. in the Board Room on the second floor of the terminal. Meeting dates are subject to change. The schedule through the end of the year is:

— September 5, September 19
— October 3, October 17
— November 21
— December 5, December 19

Download meeting agendas, documents, and other information.

source:

Indianapolis International Airport (Indianapolis Airport)

 

[Drail]

I think the city owns the property and the airport authority is responsible for operating it. Recently the TSA has shown interest in claiming that they can override state laws concerning weapons in airports (secure and non secure areas). This is going on currently at the Atlanta airport. I think the TSA is going to try and possibly be able to ban CCW at every U.S. airport unless the Supreme Court gets involved. I have also read the TSA is testing devices and have been searching people who are not passengers in the non secured areas of some airports. Should be interesting to see how this goes.

 

[jedi]

Does anyone know if there has ever been an incident (eg. shoot-out) at an airport?


If I were a criminal an airport would not be where I would go do a crime right now anyways since there is already so much security there. Off course with the proposed "gun free" airport I'm sure that would change.

When do you think the other side will understand this?

 

[rhino]

They can ask you to leave, but since it's public property, you don't have to leave.

If guns aren't allowed, how are people going to get them from their vehicle to the check-in desk when they check them in their baggage? This isn't Chicago or New York.

 

[ralphb72]

So if it is public property, can the "authority" pass an ordinance banning carry there? I looked through their agendas and minutes and they pass their own "ordinances" their "board" seems to include the Mayor of Indy at least I saw his name on a couple of things. I think it would take a lawyer to figure it out but that's a good question Rhino, how would you get it to check in?

 

[CarmelHP]

Call the Mayor's office and demand an answer. Seriously. Ballard will be hanging on by a thread as it is. He better be doing some constituent services.

 

[huawilso]

Rino is wrong you can be asked to leave public property and if you refuse, you can be warned for tresspass and then if you continue to refuse you can be arressted. It happens all the time.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Rino is wrong you can be asked to leave public property and if you refuse, you can be warned for tresspass and then if you continue to refuse you can be arressted. It happens all the time.

I beg to differ:

IC 35-43-2-2
Criminal trespass
Sec. 2. (a) A person who:
(1) not having a contractual interest in the property, knowingly or intentionally enters the real property of another person after having been denied entry by the other person or that person's agent;
(2) not having a contractual interest in the property, knowingly or intentionally refuses to leave the real property of another person after having been asked to leave by the other person or that person's agent;
(3) accompanies another person in a vehicle, with knowledge that the other person knowingly or intentionally is exerting unauthorized control over the vehicle;
(4) knowingly or intentionally interferes with the possession or use of the property of another person without the person's consent;
(5) not having a contractual interest in the property, knowingly or intentionally enters the dwelling of another person without the person's consent; or
(6) knowingly or intentionally:
(A) travels by train without lawful authority or the railroad carrier's consent; and (B) rides on the outside of a train or inside a passenger car, locomotive, or freight car, including a boxcar, flatbed, or container without lawful authority or the railroad carrier's consent;
commits criminal trespass, a Class A misdemeanor. However, the offense is a Class D felony if it is committed on a scientific research facility, on school property, or on a school bus or the person has a prior unrelated conviction for an offense under this section concerning the same property.
(b) A person has been denied entry under subdivision (a)(1) of this section when the person has been denied entry by means of:
(1) personal communication, oral or written; or
(2) posting or exhibiting a notice at the main entrance in a manner that is either prescribed by law or likely to come to the attention of the public.
(c) Subsections (a) and (b) do not apply to the following:
(1) A passenger on a train.
(2) An employee of a railroad carrier while engaged in the performance of official duties.
(3) A law enforcement officer, firefighter, or emergency response personnel while engaged in the performance of official duties.
(4) A person going on railroad property in an emergency to rescue a person or animal from harm's way or to remove an object that the person reasonably believes poses an imminent threat to life or limb.
(5) A person on the station grounds or in the depot of a railroad carrier:
(A) as a passenger; or
(B) for the purpose of transacting lawful business.
(6) A:
(A) person; or
(B) person's:
(i) family member;
(ii) invitee;
(iii) employee;
(iv) agent; or
(v) independent contractor;
going on a railroad's right-of-way for the purpose of crossing at a private crossing site approved by the railroad carrier to obtain access to land that the person owns, leases, or operates.
(7) A person having written permission from the railroad carrier to go on specified railroad property.
(8) A representative of the Indiana department of transportation while engaged in the performance of official duties.
(9) A representative of the federal Railroad Administration while engaged in the performance of official duties.
(10) A representative of the National Transportation Safety Board while engaged in the performance of official duties.

There is no section of the Indiana Code which addresses trespassing being chargeable for someone on public property, only upon "the real property of another person" "without a contractual interest"
or
being present during and being part of a vehicle theft
or
hitching a ride on a train.

Having a ticket for a plane gives you a "contractual interest" in that they must either transport you or refund the price of your ticket-it's not like you can board the plane at the airport down the street. I'm not sure how it would impact a person who is dropping off or picking up a passenger.

IANAL, IDSIAHIELN, TINLA.

BTW, if you're going to make the assertion that the Rhino is mistaken, especially on a point of law, you really should have your ducks in a row first. I've yet to see that happen.

Blessings,
B

 

[pmpmstrb]

Public property or not we all know that if they want to charge you with something they will. Hell disturbing the peace is such a vague accusation they will probably just hit you with that if they can't get trespassing to stick.

 

[Scutter01]

Charging you with something and getting a conviction are two vastly different things. And doing so without being sued for civil rights violations is even trickier.

 

[rhino]

Public property or not we all know that if they want to charge you with something they will. Hell disturbing the peace is such a vague accusation they will probably just hit you with that if they can't get trespassing to stick.

It's unlikely anyone would be charged with "disturbing the peace" since it does not exist in the Indiana Code (although some municipalities still retain such ordinances). The IC instead has "disorderly conduct" which is somewhat better defined that "disturbing the peace" could ever be.

 

[Drail]

Interesting posts on this subject. I think we may be incorrect in assuming that the airport is "public property", at least as far as the Dept. of Homeboy Security and the TSA views it in the aftermath of 9/11. As someone else has brought up the idea that no weapons being allowed in the airport conflicts with airline and FAA regs regarding transporting declared firearms in your checked bags, which I have done many times and never had a problem with any of the airlines. (Although some very interesting reactions have taken place at the ticket counter when you declare it.) People are now asking how this can possibly work at the Atlanta airport after the head of the airport proclaimed it a weapon free zone. I think these policies have created a gray area for the courts to deal with. I asked several airport police officers (NOT FEDS) while at the old airport what their view was on CCW in the airport's non secured areas and they said they had no problem whatsoever with state licensed folks packing. But one of them told me stay far away from the TSA people because "they're completely crazy". I think this will probably continue to be the policy at the new airport unless the FEDs get involved. I have noticed this week at the new facility groups of 4 or 5 TSA uniforms roaming all over the airport and they're looking at people intently. Be sure to tune in next week for the continuing confusion.