Check out the "training pics from Il CCL classes

[Kirk Freeman]

What is a "D.V. charge"?

Joe, he talking about Domestic Violence.

 

[FireBirdDS]

Good grief. How many people have to be shot in class before Captain Tacticalpants stops standing downrange?

 

[rhino]

Joe, he talking about Domestic Violence.

Ah!

Not good!

 

[Mr. Habib]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the fact that someone was probably holding that camera looking at those students. You guys are slipping.

 

[HoughMade]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the fact that someone was probably holding that camera looking at those students. You guys are slipping.

C'mon as long as the students feel like they got their money's worth, the 4 rules don't apply. At least I've read something like that somewhere.

 

[mildot1]

I guess you better start e-mailing Max Michel and Travis Tomasie and chew thier ass out to, they lined us all up after double clearing pistols. Stood in front and demo'ed the correct position so we could try to copy, walked right down the line and looked right down the barrels and adjusted positions of each shooter. Guess yuou have never been to a world class shotgun instructor or fitter either, they will be in front of your mounted gun also. I clearly remember "drill sergeants" doing the same thing at Ft Benning during small arms training.

I am a registered "illinois" instructor, I never walk in front of students taking a basic class. I agree the point of training new shooters is to drill the 4 safety rules into thier head! But all this crap I'm reading on here IE: angle of shots, muzzle control taken from pics is B.S., is stupid. Some of you sound like the morons that look at you tube vids shot from a remote camera and post about the shooter fireing in the direction of the camera man.

How many times have you been in the background and saw a shooter break what you thought was the 180 and not get called? Angles are decieving and so are photos.

FWIW
Mildot1

PS: We dumbass minions over here really appreciate all your support. Do you realize that we were the last state to get CCW? We are just NOW starting to enjoy the rights you have had for years, and are still working on trying to fix a bunch of stupid restrictions that we had to eat just to get it. So far complaints have gotten about 300+ instructors busted, I say "great". My point is this. Why don't you let us handle it instead of typing all this crap that is fodder for the people working against us?

 

[nakinate]

I guess you better start e-mailing Max Michel and Travis Tomasie and chew thier ass out to, they lined us all up after double clearing pistols. Stood in front and demo'ed the correct position so we could try to copy, walked right down the line and looked right down the barrels and adjusted positions of each shooter. Guess yuou have never been to a world class shotgun instructor or fitter either, they will be in front of your mounted gun also. I clearly remember "drill sergeants" doing the same thing at Ft Benning during small arms training.

I am a registered "illinois" instructor, I never walk in front of students taking a basic class. I agree the point of training new shooters is to drill the 4 safety rules into thier head! But all this crap I'm reading on here IE: angle of shots, muzzle control taken from pics is B.S., is stupid. Some of you sound like the morons that look at you tube vids shot from a remote camera and post about the shooter fireing in the direction of the camera man.

How many times have you been in the background and saw a shooter break what you thought was the 180 and not get called? Angles are decieving and so are photos.

FWIW
Mildot1

PS: We dumbass minions over here really appreciate all your support. Do you realize that we were the last state to get CCW? We are just NOW starting to enjoy the rights you have had for years, and are still working on trying to fix a bunch of stupid restrictions that we had to eat just to get it. So far complaints have gotten about 300+ instructors busted, I say "great". My point is this. Why don't you let us handle it instead of typing all this crap that is fodder for the people working against us?

Let you handle it? Better hurry up before someone gets shot due to poor instruction.

 

[pudly]

Why don't you let us handle it instead of typing all this crap that is fodder for the people working against us?

Illini to Hoosier translation: Shut the **** up!

Do you actually think that trainers good/bad qualities shouldn't be discussed here, that other firearm mistakes aren't brought up (including our own) or that Illinois trainers should be exempt from scrutiny? Problems like these are learning opportunities. Please take advantage of it and encourage your fellow Illinois trainers to do so as well.

 

[rhino]

I guess you better start e-mailing Max Michel and Travis Tomasie and chew thier ass out to, they lined us all up after double clearing pistols. Stood in front and demo'ed the correct position so we could try to copy, walked right down the line and looked right down the barrels and adjusted positions of each shooter. Guess yuou have never been to a world class shotgun instructor or fitter either, they will be in front of your mounted gun also. I clearly remember "drill sergeants" doing the same thing at Ft Benning during small arms training.

Them doing something that is a bad idea and an even worse example doesn't make it a good idea or acceptable. I'm pretty sure they could have done everything they did for you without standing in front of the muzzle of your gun(s).

I am a registered "illinois" instructor, I never walk in front of students taking a basic class. I agree the point of training new shooters is to drill the 4 safety rules into thier head! But all this crap I'm reading on here IE: angle of shots, muzzle control taken from pics is B.S., is stupid. Some of you sound like the morons that look at you tube vids shot from a remote camera and post about the shooter fireing in the direction of the camera man.

There are photos taken from angles that mislead the perception of the relative positions of objects in that photo. However, the photo in this topic of Andre Queen is not one of them. No matter how you change the perspective, he was positioned either in front of or between the muzzles of the two guys on the right. Sure, they might not have had their muzzles pointed directly at him, but it was still a bad idea and a bad example for students.

I've had too many guns pointed at me to encourage people to do it some more.

 

[04FXSTS]

I've had too many guns pointed at me to encourage people to do it some more


I can't imagine, not with your pleasent personality. Cousin Jim.

 

[rhino]

I can't imagine, not with your pleasent personality. Cousin Jim.

Most of the time they didn't realize they were doing it, which is an additional problem to overcome! Sometimes people do stupid things because they don't know any better. Sometimes they do stupid things because they're not paying attention to the situation. Sometimes people do stupid things because they don't care enough to not do them. Sometimes they do people do stupid things because they're just plain stupid.

The next time you see me, ask me about how much I enjoy having loaded 9mm ARs pointed at my chest.

 

[mildot1]

Has anyone sent a message to this "trainer" explaining about bad habits and the 4 rules?

This is the only post that I read in this thread that I would consider to be of any "constructive" help. The rest of the entire thread is no more than bashing. I'm not going to go get the exact numbers but I "think" Illinois had around 2100 registered instructors, already around 300 have been ripped for shoddy training and lost thier credentials. So complaints have already taken out 30%.

I would venture to guess if Indiana had the same requirements you would have seen the same "money hungry" peckerheads trying to exploit the populace with inferior training as Illinois did.

Oh but wait, your state does not require any training at all for a resident to get a LTCH. I must surmise that all Indiane residents are born with the inherent safety rules and knowledge required to carry safely.

Heres what I'm saying. If you see something that you think is wrong, contact that individual or the ISP. Don't come on here to do a bash that makes it sound like every instructor in Il is a idiot. I guarentee there are some and the revocations prove it.

Try looking for good things to post that would help us prove that law abiding Illinois instructors are trying to educate our new shooters in the proper safety skills and habits.

Mildot

 

[rhino]

Thanks for the advice.

 

[actaeon277]

This is the only post that I read in this thread that I would consider to be of any "constructive" help. The rest of the entire thread is no more than bashing. I'm not going to go get the exact numbers but I "think" Illinois had around 2100 registered instructors, already around 300 have been ripped for shoddy training and lost thier credentials. So complaints have already taken out 30%.

I would venture to guess if Indiana had the same requirements you would have seen the same "money hungry" peckerheads trying to exploit the populace with inferior training as Illinois did.

Oh but wait, your state does not require any training at all for a resident to get a LTCH. I must surmise that all Indiane residents are born with the inherent safety rules and knowledge required to carry safely.

Heres what I'm saying. If you see something that you think is wrong, contact that individual or the ISP. Don't come on here to do a bash that makes it sound like every instructor in Il is a idiot. I guarentee there are some and the revocations prove it.

Try looking for good things to post that would help us prove that law abiding Illinois instructors are trying to educate our new shooters in the proper safety skills and habits.

Mildot

Well, if I see a bad habit, I don't care the state of origin.

As for the born with inherent knowledge....
Maybe we think that a person SHOULD get training, but that it SHOULD NOT be required.

 

[actaeon277]

And, I agree that not EVERY trainer in Illinois is an idiot.
But any bad trainer, regardless of the state, needs to be called out.
Passing on dangerous info affects all the people they train, and all the people those people interact with.

If I hear of a driver's education person from Utah, training people to leave their toddlers in the car with the engine running and windows rolled up, then I'm saying something.
And it is not a statement on all driver's ed people in that state.

 

[marv]

Way back in the day Colt listed a Banker's Special. It was slightly smaller than the Detective Special, having a more rounded grip and was chambered in .22LR and .38 SP.

 

[Ruffnek]

Way back in the day Colt listed a Banker's Special. It was slightly smaller than the Detective Special, having a more rounded grip and was chambered in .22LR and .38 SP.

 

[mkbar80]

. I'm not going to go get the exact numbers but I "think" Illinois had around 2100 registered instructors, already around 300 have been ripped for shoddy training and lost thier credentials. So complaints have already taken out 30%.

Mildot

2100 x .30 = 630

Illinois is only down something less than 15%

 

[Kutnupe14]

This pic actually doesn't bother me. I've seen indoor classes where the instructor, after checking numerous times that there isn't rounds in the gun or even on the person, has newbs get into their stance as he or she demonstrates correct form at the front of the class.

 

[04FXSTS]

Revoked instructors from the ISP web site. https://ccl4illinois.com/ccw/Public/revoked.aspx

---

CCTID	Instructor Name	Date Revoked
CCT13B626	JOSEMARIA ALVAREZ	02/28/14
CCT13A248	JAMES ANDEL	03/07/14
CCT13B609	CALVIN BELL	03/26/14
CCT13B722	BRYAN FERGUSON	04/09/14
CCT13A110	RONALD GOLDBERG	03/03/14
CCT13B892	DENNIS HARPER	03/03/14
CCT13A827	DAVID KIMBLE	12/12/13
CCT13B465	RANDALL LEINHART	11/01/13
CCT13B536	STEVE STOLTE	12/03/13
CCT13B017	DANIEL SWANSON	02/07/14
CCT13A259	RYAN WARNER	03/07/14
CCT13A184	DANIEL WITTENSTROM	03/07/14
CCT13A004	JORDAN ZOOT	10/10/13