CIA Torture Report Released

[rhino]

Curious -- how, exactly, would one prove that?

Dianne Feinstein doesn't need any stinkin' proof!

I don't care how 'outraged' adherents to the religion of perpetual outrage were, the stupid frat house/high school pranks at Abu did not rise to the level of torture. If you think they do then every practical joker needs to be pursued as a torturer.

I had the misfortune of hearing Brian Williams refer those events as "atrocities" over, and over, and over again. He and is accomplices shape the perception and then the perception becomes reality. Same thing is happening with this op-ed piece foisted on us by some members of the US Senate in the guise of a "report."

 

[GCA321321]

Brennan acknowledged that, “in a limited number of instances, agency officers used interrogation techniques that had not been authorized, were abhorrent, and rightly should be repudiated by all.”

Why are these CIA Officers above being prosecuted?

 

[Expat]

Brennan acknowledged that, “in a limited number of instances, agency officers used interrogation techniques that had not been authorized, were abhorrent, and rightly should be repudiated by all.”

Why are these CIA Officers above being prosecuted?

I think they were tasked by their political masters to do whatever it took to get the job done.

 

[GCA321321]

I think they were tasked by their political masters to do whatever it took to get the job done.

I think you're probably right, but that doesn't make them any less culpable for their actions does it?

"aww shucks I was just doing my job" doesn't bode well in court, historically speaking.

 

[Trigger Time]

Brennan acknowledged that, “in a limited number of instances, agency officers used interrogation techniques that had not been authorized, were abhorrent, and rightly should be repudiated by all.”

Why are these CIA Officers above being prosecuted?

and I'll lose zero sleep over it

 

[bingley]

Once again, INGO is right about stuff. Torture is really under used in this country. If we had more torture in this country, we'd have fewer problems!

Illegal immigrants? No problem -- torture them! Pedophiles? Torture them! Drug addicts? Torture them! Urban youths and Ferguson protestors? Torture them! Bundy Ranch failing to pay fees and taxes? Torture them! People breaking gun laws? Torture them! Drive too fast? Torture them! Protesting against imminent domain? Torture them! A baby crying loudly on the plane? Torture her parents, and rectally hydrate her for good measure!

Torture is an under appreciated technique for bringing people in line. It's all because people got soft and PC that we don't do it whenever we can. In fact, we should do it in the middle of the town square to serve as a warning to others. I saw that in Mockingjay. They obviously didn't do it enough. They were more into killing. Why take our your tax base? A good round of torture would have brought District 12 back in line.

Don't forget: freedom has to be bled for. I'd rather that the bleeding is done by some other people. Under torture.

 

[Expat]

I think most Americans reject the characterization of what was done, as torture. Maybe it is due to the entertainment we watch. When people get tortured in the movies, people drill actual holes through hands, not just threaten them with it. We see nails pulled out, eyes plucked out, electrocution, genitals beaten, etc. so when we hear someone had to listen to stupid music or had water poured on their face ou reaction is, meh...

 

[cobber]

I think most Americans reject the characterization of what was done, as torture. Maybe it is due to the entertainment we watch. When people get tortured in the movies, people drill actual holes through hands, not just threaten them with it. We see nails pulled out, eyes plucked out, electrocution, genitals beaten, etc. so when we hear someone had to listen to stupid music or had water poured on their face ou reaction is, meh...

It appears that Hollywood screenwriters are sicker than the average CIA interrogator.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

The difference between Hollywood script-writers and CIA interrogators - at least in this instance - is that the interrogators were attempting to induce cooperation through the use of physical discomfort in an effort to bypass the conscious editing of the interrogatee's mind during questioning. Enough physical and mental torture will break anyone, but if they get "broken" too hard, they're no good for intelligence gathering. Most of these "tortures" consisted of making the subject uncomfortable for long periods of time in an effort to induce disassociation and get the subject to answer questions without thinking, thus avoiding well-thought-out lies. Upthread there was a political cartoon equating Dick Cheney's rebuttal to this "report" with the way ISIS treats its prisoners. One would do well to remember that "tortures" of various sorts are a long-held part of the culture in that part of the world (as well as most of Asia ). These things we are aware of through historical information as well as national experience in the past 60 years or so. WE pretty much had to learn how to torture on our own - or to copy the tactics our enemies had used on us in the past (likely the source of the "abhorrent" instances cited by Brennan).

 

[rambone]

Waterboarding kept the Khmer Rouge safe from enemies of the state. They weren't in uniform, as you can see, so they were fair game for torture.

 

[bingley]

One would do well to remember that "tortures" of various sorts are a long-held part of the culture in that part of the world (as well as most of Asia ). These things we are aware of through historical information as well as national experience in the past 60 years or so. WE pretty much had to learn how to torture on our own - or to copy the tactics our enemies had used on us in the past (likely the source of the "abhorrent" instances cited by Brennan).

Don't be so down on America! With our natural ingenuity and some time investment, torture is now as American as apple pie! We are now world famous for torture, and soon perhaps we can even start training agents from other countries to do it better. I see a widespread implementation of this new management technique. Instead of the touchy feely treehugging permissive attitude in school, we will now start waterboarding little kids who don't behave in class. That will solve your "achievement gap," liberals! Just drown a few Tamir Rices in hot pepper water, and they won't ever scare people with toy guns in the park again! "Equal opportunity"? That's equal opportunity torture to you, colored folks! Aren't you just tired of these thugs that distort the truth and play up the media? Now you can induce disassociation and get them to answer questions truthfully without thinking or an attorney present! Wondering what really happened with Trayvon Martin? Well, he's dead, but we can put old George Zimmerman in stress position, force feed his ass to establish complete control over him, play loud music to break him, if we want the truth!

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

Am I the only one who wonders where Dick Cheney REALLY got that heart?

 

[JollyMon]

 

[ruger1800]

Not taking up for the bastards, hopefully nothing will ever happen to your life that would make you want to do this.

 

[JollyMon]

Not taking up for the bastards, hopefully nothing will ever happen to your life that would make you want to do this.

What? That I am okay with our government showing the same "respect" to the terrorist that they have shown us? I hope nothing in your life happens where a loved one could be saved by waterboarding one of those SOBs. How many terrorists have died after being captured by the US? ZERO. How many US citizens have died after being captured by these animals.

 

[rambone]

How many terrorists have died after being captured by the US? ZERO.

 

[rambone]

The USA used to hang torturers before it started emulating them.

Our government's "enhanced" position on participating in torture is indicative of the places we are heading. Here's some overlooked history about prosecuting torturers during WW2.
.

The United States knows quite a bit about waterboarding. The U.S. government -- whether acting alone before domestic courts, commissions and courts-martial or as part of the world community -- has not only condemned the use of water torture but has severely punished those who applied it.

After World War II, we convicted several Japanese soldiers for waterboarding American and Allied prisoners of war. At the trial of his captors, then-Lt. Chase J. Nielsen, one of the 1942 Army Air Forces officers who flew in the Doolittle Raid and was captured by the Japanese, testified: "I was given several types of torture. . . . I was given what they call the water cure." He was asked what he felt when the Japanese soldiers poured the water. "Well, I felt more or less like I was drowning," he replied, "just gasping between life and death."

Nielsen's experience was not unique. Nor was the prosecution of his captors. After Japan surrendered, the United States organized and participated in the International Military Tribunal for the Far East, generally called the Tokyo War Crimes Trials. Leading members of Japan's military and government elite were charged, among their many other crimes, with torturing Allied military personnel and civilians. The principal proof upon which their torture convictions were based was conduct that we would now call waterboarding.

-- Judge Evan Wallach, Waterboarding Used to Be a Crime
​

Description of the Japanese war crime:
.

A towel was fixed under the chin and down over the face. Then many buckets of water were poured into the towel so that the water gradually reached the mouth and rising further eventually also the nostrils, which resulted in his becoming unconscious and collapsing like a person drowned. This procedure was sometimes repeated 5-6 times in succession.
​

More on Lt. Chase J. Nielsen, from his testimony against his Japanese captors.

​

"I was given what they call the water cure," Nielsen remembered. "I was put on my back on the floor with my arms and legs stretched out, one guard holding each limb. A towel was wrapped around my face and water was poured on. They poured water on this towel until I was almost unconscious from strangulation, then they would let up until I'd get my breath, then they'd start all over again. I felt more or less like I was drowning, just gasping between life and death."

He was also tortured by being chained for extended periods with his arms above his head, so that his toes barely touched the ground. Condemned torture practices later became American standards.

Read more: Nelson, Craig. The First Heroes: The Extraordinary Story of the Doolittle Raid

 

[wadcutter]

Our government's "enhanced" position on participating in torture is indicative of the places we are heading. Here's some overlooked history about prosecuting torturers during WW2.

Mr. Rambone:

You make an excellent point, but even it is not the strongest way of saying it.

The United States executed Japanese soldiers for waterboarding.

Yes, <i>National Review</i>, We Did Execute Japanese for Waterboarding | Paul Begala

The United States has just lost the ability to prosecute anyone for torturing its own soldiers, and has made it fully justified for an enemy to treat U.S. soldiers anyway it wishes. That's the greatest crime in all of this. In a conflict, an enemy can conclude that it must treat U.S. POWs exactly as he knows the US is treating his mates.

This terrible period in U.S. History has set the rules of conflict back centuries.

Rachel Maddow recently made an excellent point. Many prisoners were waterboarded tens of times. If waterboarding is so effective, as FoxNews Nation argues, why did it need to be done more than once?

 

[Trigger Time]

Waterboarding kept the Khmer Rouge safe from enemies of the state. They weren't in uniform, as you can see, so they were fair game for torture.

doing it wrong

 

[mrjarrell]

Our government's "enhanced" position on participating in torture is indicative of the places we are heading. Here's some overlooked history about prosecuting torturers during WW2.
.

The United States knows quite a bit about waterboarding. The U.S. government -- whether acting alone before domestic courts, commissions and courts-martial or as part of the world community -- has not only condemned the use of water torture but has severely punished those who applied it.

After World War II, we convicted several Japanese soldiers for waterboarding American and Allied prisoners of war. At the trial of his captors, then-Lt. Chase J. Nielsen, one of the 1942 Army Air Forces officers who flew in the Doolittle Raid and was captured by the Japanese, testified: "I was given several types of torture. . . . I was given what they call the water cure." He was asked what he felt when the Japanese soldiers poured the water. "Well, I felt more or less like I was drowning," he replied, "just gasping between life and death."

Nielsen's experience was not unique. Nor was the prosecution of his captors. After Japan surrendered, the United States organized and participated in the International Military Tribunal for the Far East, generally called the Tokyo War Crimes Trials. Leading members of Japan's military and government elite were charged, among their many other crimes, with torturing Allied military personnel and civilians. The principal proof upon which their torture convictions were based was conduct that we would now call waterboarding.

-- Judge Evan Wallach, Waterboarding Used to Be a Crime
​

Description of the Japanese war crime:
.

A towel was fixed under the chin and down over the face. Then many buckets of water were poured into the towel so that the water gradually reached the mouth and rising further eventually also the nostrils, which resulted in his becoming unconscious and collapsing like a person drowned. This procedure was sometimes repeated 5-6 times in succession.
​

More on Lt. Chase J. Nielsen, from his testimony against his Japanese captors.

​

"I was given what they call the water cure," Nielsen remembered. "I was put on my back on the floor with my arms and legs stretched out, one guard holding each limb. A towel was wrapped around my face and water was poured on. They poured water on this towel until I was almost unconscious from strangulation, then they would let up until I'd get my breath, then they'd start all over again. I felt more or less like I was drowning, just gasping between life and death."

He was also tortured by being chained for extended periods with his arms above his head, so that his toes barely touched the ground. Condemned torture practices later became American standards.

Read more: Nelson, Craig. The First Heroes: The Extraordinary Story of the Doolittle Raid

I'd be all for sending every single person who did these atrocities to trial and prison for the rest of their lives. Let them make big rocks into little ones till they die of old age. If it was good enough for the Japanese war criminals then it's good enough for the American ones, too. I don't care if they were "following orders" or not. That defence was squashed at Nuremberg.