Citizen's arrest, what are your thoughts INGO? (WARNING: James Yeager video)

[Maximinus Thrax]

I'm inclined to agree with Yeager on this one... (he usually has good points even if you don't like his delivery)

My number one goal will be neutralizing the threat whether that be by making the threat go code brown on their britches and running away (preferred method) or by exercising my right to defend my home and my family with deadly force. I'm not going to prolong exposure to the situation. Not to mention...what if your aggressor has a friend? While you're busy with one you've dropped your situational awareness and have opened yourself up for another mook to surprise you.

It's not worth the risk. Let them go if they are no longer a threat to your life and don't try to talk them down if they are.

 

[88E30M50]

I agree with Yeager too. I'm actually coming to like some of his videos. I like the unpolished nature of the delivery more than some of the other stuff out there that seems too staged. It's similar to why I like the Hickock45 videos. But, back to the question: I'm not attempting to arrest anyone. If the time exists, I'll yell for them to 'Get the F... out!' or just 'Go away!' and if they do anything other than to begin leaving with me pointing a pistol at COM, they will be engaged. If an intruder is given the chance to leave while having a gun pointed at them and they don't take it, their intent is not going to become your friend.

 

[bwframe]

...I DO KNOW that I can hold a firearm on a mope (from several feet away) who may have attempted a forcible felony who may or may not be bleeding on a tile floor of a Village Pantry...

With all due respect, how do you know this?

 

[ScouT6a]

With all due respect, how do you know this?

I've seen me do it.

 

[Tactically Fat]

With all due respect, how do you know this?

Because I'm of mental and physical capacity to do so? Because it isn't physically difficult to hold a firearm at high ready or even high compressed ready?

I know you like to "poke" to stimulate conversation and promote introspection - but come on, man.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Because it isn't physically difficult to hold a firearm at high ready or even high compressed ready?

Now there's an INGO event I'd like to see at the next gathering! Most would not make 10 minutes.

Rick Staples at Thunder Ranch did 45 minutes when he was with OPPD. But I would really like to see INGOers do this.

 

[HoughMade]

[video=youtube;9efgLHgsBmM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9efgLHgsBmM[/video]

 

[SteveM4A1]

Now there's an INGO event I'd like to see at the next gathering! Most would not make 10 minutes.

Rick Staples at Thunder Ranch did 45 minutes when he was with OPPD. But I would really like to see INGOers do this.

I don't think a lot of people realize this about themselves. But hey, I like to think I'm tough too!

 

[bwframe]

I've seen me do it.

You've held someone at gunpoint until LEO's arrived?

Because I'm of mental and physical capacity to do so? Because it isn't physically difficult to hold a firearm at high ready or even high compressed ready?...

How might you deal with a mope that might have nothing to live for, other than escaping your "arrest?"
One that begins to cry out in pain or other distress that would necessitate assistance in lieu of watching them die?
A drug crazed or drunk sole that doesn't readily recognise that your gun makes you the boss of him?

In other words, what if the BG doesn't become docile and behave as you have envisioned?

...I know you like to "poke" to stimulate conversation and promote introspection - but come on, man.

Thought Yeager done that with the video that started this thread? I'm just agreeing with him. Holding BG's at gunpoint is generally a bad idea.

 

[Que]

I am not a licensed attorney, but I believe if you place someone under citizens arrest, at that point you are responsible for their welfare. Too much can happen within 10-minutes that may cause me to end up in jail and sued by some scumbag.

 

[Tactically Fat]

Now there's an INGO event I'd like to see at the next gathering! Most would not make 10 minutes.

Rick Staples at Thunder Ranch did 45 minutes when he was with OPPD. But I would really like to see INGOers do this.

extended "on target" high ready... You're right. Those 2lb guns get mighty heavy at the end of long (heavy) arms. Which is why I also included "high compressed ready".

 

[Tactically Fat]

You've held someone at gunpoint until LEO's arrived?



How might you deal with a mope that might have nothing to live for, other than escaping your "arrest?"
One that begins to cry out in pain or other distress that would necessitate assistance in lieu of watching them die?
A drug crazed or drunk sole that doesn't readily recognise that your gun makes you the boss of him?

In other words, what if the BG doesn't become docile and behave as you have envisioned?




Thought Yeager done that with the video that started this thread? I'm just agreeing with him. Holding BG's at gunpoint is generally a bad idea.

As I said in my original post... It depends. It depends on a whole host of things - and that whole host of things also depend on other things.

It depends. It's situational. And I wouldn't want to do it unless I was "forced" into it by circumstances.

We can parry and go over what-ifs for hours, friend.

It depends. It's situational.

 

[BugI02]

MG sometimes takes it to the Nth level.

Sometimes?

 

[BiscuitNaBasket]

I watched the video and I completely agree. I'm not the police and I'm not trying to be. If someone broke into my house they would be shot or they would run away. The last ****ing thing i want is to have the scumbag still in my house.

If I'm out in public this is even more true. I don't want to hold some idiot for committing a felony while a crowd gathers. Too many messed up scenarios I don't want to put myself or my family in.

The idea is to STOP THE THREAT - NOT CAPTURE IT.

That being said...every situation is different and may or may not require a change of plans.

 

[Libertarian01]

I have no preference or prejudice for Mr. Yeager. He seems to have his heart in the right place and wants to do the best for people, so kudo's to him for this.

However, I do not agree with him regarding this issue.

Let us presume the first example discussed, an unknown, uninvited individual in your home, who is NOT presenting an immediate threat to life and limb, ergo lethal force is not legal. He argues that citizens arrest will be risky. I agree with this... and so what? The very fact that they are present is risky! Our pointing a lethal weapon at them is risky. However, if we follow Mr. Yeagers train of thought and "tell them to leave" what we are left with is an unidentified individual who A - knows where we live, B - knows at least some of the residents, and C - knows there are guns present! They now have a great deal more information about the home, its layout, and what the military would call reconnaissance! The LE that show up may not be able to capture them, and at best will try to take fingerprints... maybe. They sure won't go CSI and check for hairs and run DNA, way too expensive for a simple B&E without bodily injury or any severe damage. I don't know about you but I'd sure sleep a lot better knowing that at the very least I kept them there until LE arrived, they are identified and booked, and I know their name! I would sleep a lot less well wondering who they were and if they'd be back, but that's just silly ol' me.

Mr. Yeager argues, rightfully so, "we don't have any police department backing us up. We have no training etc, etc." Again, so what? Most people who own a firearm have little to no training, yet most won't argue against a basic citizens right to have such a tool to defend themselves.

Mr. Yeager claims "I can't imagine a situation where I'm going to arrest someone..." I can! I see someone being assaulted and injured by a bad guy with a knife. If/when I intervene with a firearm I'm not going in blazing but I am willing to shoot if necessary. I am also going to tell them to "get down get down get down" and call 911 as the situation has permitted, either before or after engaging. I may not be able to legally shoot them if they ignore me and run but I can sure intimate that, and hope they don't run. At worst, I detain them for a few more minutes giving LE a better chance of apprehending them as I, and the initial victim, now have a better view of them and can give a better description. I don't want the bad guy out there to do this again. I don't want any more victims on my conscience. Oh, and as a member of the community under Peel's 7th Principle "...that the police are the public and the public are the police..." it is my responsibility to my neighbors to get involved. This one seems an easy scenario to imagine, I don't know how anyone couldn't imagine it.?.

While citizens arrest does place a burden on the citizen so enforcing it, so too does the carrying of a firearm, remaining on location as a witness to a crime, the helping of an individual who is injured, etc etc. ANY action we take on behalf of our neighbors or community brings with it some potential risks and repercussions, but I would submit that it is our fear of those things that weaken our bonds of brotherhood and does not strengthen them.

Mr. Yeager overlooked the emphasis on each state having slightly different laws regarding citizens arrest. He used a blanket statement to the effect of, "citizens arrest is universal" which I do not know if this is true. Even if it is each state will have varying laws on how such arrest can be enacted and I would have advised everyone to review their own states laws regarding such. As I read it ours in Indiana is IC 35-33-10-3 (15).

Regards,

Doug

 

[roscott]

If the time exists, I'll yell for them to 'Get the F... out!' or just 'Go away!' and if they do anything other than to begin leaving with me pointing a pistol at COM, they will be engaged.

The one time I had someone break into my residence, this is exactly what I did. I had them at gunpoint, but they complied when I told them to leave, and that was that.

I then foolishly posted about it on INGO and was railed against for all of my tactical shortcomings. Meh. I'm human. I lived, and I "won." I certainly wasn't going to try to "arrest" anyone and wind up getting sued by Mr. Thief.

 

[Tactically Fat]

That being said...every situation is different and may or may not require a change of plans.

Indeed.

 

[KoopaKGB]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jm7sjRJQTc

The folks in this vid easily could have been killed by the fleeing suspect and certainly shouldn't have done what they did, but in this ONE specific case it worked out for them. I think folks like to think they can/should forcefully arrest a the bad guy come from reading many of "The Armed Citizen" reports the NRA publishes every month. It seems like there are a ton of stories they publish that result in the wounded or subdued perp being detained until police arrive.