CIVIL RELIGIOUS DISCUSSION: All things Christianity

[foszoe]

Where can I find a document entitled, Baptist Convention Guidelines? I heard a reference to this document but I don't know where to find it. Thanks to anyone who knows.

 

[hog slayer]

Where can I find a document entitled, Baptist Convention Guidelines? I heard a reference to this document but I don't know where to find it. Thanks to anyone who knows.

Southern Baptist Convention > Southern Baptist Convention Entity Relationship Guidelines

I found that altogether too quickly. Surely it's not what you seek.

I will ping my brother. He's got a Baptist Church in Ohio and a doctorates. He ought to know something with all that schooling.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

Conventions make my skin crawl

 

[foszoe]

did you actually ever read The Acts of the Apostles or just what you get in your Sunday readings. Everything you are asking is covered.

Feel free to catch up with us if you would like. We are only up through Chapter 8

American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese of North America | Orthodox Scripture Study - Video Archive: The Book of Acts

Make sure to scroll down to get to the first lecture

 

[2A_Tom]

Independent Baptist rules and guidelines.

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/

 

[ChristianPatriot]

Independent Baptist rules and guidelines.

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/

Amen

 

[foszoe]

Independent Baptist rules and guidelines.

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/

I guess there ain't any Spanish speaking Independent Baptists

 

[hog slayer]

I guess there ain't any Spanish speaking Independent Baptists

I kinda like the ESV. Sometimes I get really old school and pull out the NIV

 

[ChristianPatriot]

I guess there ain't any Spanish speaking Independent Baptists

Nope. They're called Independiente Bautista. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[2A_Tom]

I have to get to bed, but Foszoe asked earlier about what scriptures the early church had.

• The Torah or Pentateuch, the Books of Moses, the first five books of the old testement.
• Jesus quoted from all of the other canonized books of the Old Testament sans Apocrypha as Scripture.
• The apostles wrote Epistles to the Churches and these were copied and kept and passed around to other Churches.
• All of the books of the New Testament were written and disseminated by 60 AD.

The 70AD Greek translation of the Old Testament wasn't in existence yet.

 

[neraph]

The 70AD Greek translation of the Old Testament wasn't in existence yet.

Um...are you referring to the Septuagint/LXX? That was begun in the 3rd century BC and completed late in the 2nd century BC. The 70 is a reference to the number of translators, not the year of completion.

 

[2A_Tom]

I stand corrected. Thank you.

I don't know how I got the idea, but have been laboring under a misconception. I have a bit of Bible history and some Bible knowledge, but that has not been part os my studies.

Years ago I studied a lot about the origins of The KJB / TR as contrasted to the Wescot and Hort and the modern interpretations, but the LXX was not part of either of those.

I am sorry that I have donated most of my reference material to one of our Christian school libraries that needed beefing up. I am working mostly from memory and I have some corrupted file extensions.

Welcome back to the land of the living. Watch out for the guy who is quiet, still waters run deep.

 

[foszoe]

I have to get to bed, but Foszoe asked earlier about what scriptures the early church had.

• The Torah or Pentateuch, the Books of Moses, the first five books of the old testement.
  
• Jesus quoted from all of the other canonized books of the Old Testament sans Apocrypha as Scripture.
  
• The apostles wrote Epistles to the Churches and these were copied and kept and passed around to other Churches.
  
• All of the books of the New Testament were written and disseminated by 60 AD.
  

The 70AD Greek translation of the Old Testament wasn't in existence yet.

In regards to the second point. What exactly would that prove? Secondly, please provide citations for where Jesus quotes from the books of Joshua, Judges, Ruth, 1 Samuel, 2 Samuel, 1 Kings, 1 Chronicles, Job, Ezra, Nehemiah, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Songs, Jeremiah, Lamentations, Ezekiel, Joel, Amos, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, and Haggai. Don't be too liberal in what a quote is because that opens the door to quotes from the books the reformers eventually deleted from their bibles after quit a number of years. Did Jesus quoted from the Greek, Aramaic, or Hebrew or a little bit of each?



In regards to the 3rd Point. Publishing then was not what it is today. The gospels and epistles were not immediately recognized as scripture. That didn’t start occurring until the 2nd century. Scriptures from that time also included books that are not in the current revision of the KJV bible, 1,2 Clement and the Gospel of Peter come to mind. Nor did every Church have a copy of every gospel and epistle until at least the 4th century if not later when the empire finally started paying for it.



In regards to the 4th point, the KJV certainly does not state that assertion, so what tradition is that following that is external to the KJV?

 

[T.Lex]

Gentlemen,

Perhaps these differences are merely nuances, or distinctions.

Jesus' own words state what it means to follow Him... to be a Christian.

1. Honor God completely. (Mark 12:29-30)
2. Love your neighbor as yourself. (Mark 12:31; John 13:34-35)

The rest is secondary, no?

I think the Pope's recent statement is a re-statement of those principles. They could apply to anyone who is not upholding one or both of those commandments. They could apply to any Christian, not just Catholics.

 

[foszoe]

Gentlemen,

Perhaps these differences are merely nuances, or distinctions.

Jesus' own words state what it means to follow Him... to be a Christian.

1. Honor God completely. (Mark 12:29-30)
2. Love your neighbor as yourself. (Mark 12:31; John 13:34-35)

The rest is secondary, no?

I think the Pope's recent statement is a re-statement of those principles. They could apply to anyone who is not upholding one or both of those commandments. They could apply to any Christian, not just Catholics.

It's a good question. My knee jerk response to it is, if that is what makes one a Christian how does one avoid a works based salvation which most Protestants reject?

 

[Woobie]

I mustn't do anything.

You however seem compelled to tell me what I must and mustn't do!

Nice escape.

Then rectify the conflict. Did Mary and Joseph:

Nullify their espousal in direct disobedience to God's direction.

Get married and violate God's design for marriage.

Get married and consummate that marriage.

(Hint: only one of these is obedience)

 

[T.Lex]

It's a good question. My knee jerk response to it is, if that is what makes one a Christian how does one avoid a works based salvation which most Protestants reject?

I hate to be impolite by answering a question with a question, but is the answer to your question necessary to follow 1 and 2 of Jesus' commands?

The artificial divide between thoughts/actions is irrelevant to whether one is honoring God or loving one's neighbor.

Then rectify the conflict. Did Mary and Joseph:

Nullify their espousal in direct disobedience to God's direction.

Get married and violate God's design for marriage.

Get married and consummate that marriage.

(Hint: only one of these is obedience)

Artificial dichotomy aside, does it matter?

That certain facts were written/recorded doesn't mean that all the pertinent facts were. Other permutations exist, but does the resolution of those questions change Jesus' teachings?

 

[foszoe]

Nice escape.

Then rectify the conflict. Did Mary and Joseph:

Nullify their espousal in direct disobedience to God's direction.

Get married and violate God's design for marriage.

Get married and consummate that marriage.

(Hint: only one of these is obedience)

Did Jesus and the disciples sin by eating grain on the Sabbath? Did David and his band sin by eating the shew bread?

Would an ordinary Jew enter the Holy of Holiest? What was the Holy of Holies? The place where God dwelt? Was Jesus God?

Could it be possible that Joseph recognized something Miraculous had happened and decide with Mary to remain celibate?

 

[Woobie]

Did Jesus and the disciples sin by eating grain on the Sabbath? Did David and his band sin by eating the shew bread?

Would an ordinary Jew enter the Holy of Holiest? What was the Holy of Holies? The place where God dwelt? Was Jesus God?

Could it be possible that Joseph recognized something Miraculous had happened and decide with Mary to remain celibate?

1) I will rely on Jesus' commentary w/r to the grain.

2) The answers to the second line are recorded in scripture

3) It would be possible that Mary and Joseph did exactly as you described. That would be ignoring their marital duties, and denying the union which God designed. Subverting God's design is sinful.

 

[Woobie]

I hate to be impolite by answering a question with a question, but is the answer to your question necessary to follow 1 and 2 of Jesus' commands?

The artificial divide between thoughts/actions is irrelevant to whether one is honoring God or loving one's neighbor.


Artificial dichotomy aside, does it matter?

That certain facts were written/recorded doesn't mean that all the pertinent facts were. Other permutations exist, but does the resolution of those questions change Jesus' teachings?

Teach me how the dichotomy is artificial. Either you are obeying God or not. That is a Biblical construct, not mine.