CIVIL RELIGIOUS DISCUSSION: All things Islam...

[Benp]

God did this as a pillar of fire leading a nation in the wilderness, didn't He? That sort of "seeing is believing" lasted less than 40 days before they built themselves an idol to worship, right?

Guess God can't go on a mountain retreat if seeing is believing.

That's one of the biggest things that I find amazing, that they would be able to see the hand of God in action. To see the the pillar of fire at night and the cloud by day, and to see the parting of the sea, the destruction of the Pharaoh and his army, but then shortly afterwards they are making a golden calf to worship!

 

[BugI02]

I will also state that this thread was at the top of page 4 a week ago and is now on page 36.

What page was it that ATM joined in?

 

[indiucky]

Simplistic response: "God" and "Allah" and even "YHWH" are human labels

Hough put me on this once and whenever I need a giggle I head to youtube to find it.....

[video=youtube;bsTqCDmCcFk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsTqCDmCcFk[/video]

 

[foszoe]

Watching a group of Christians talk about Islam is entertaining

 

[BugI02]

Well, that lighter teal at least shows up better against the green background of the text editor, but shows up worse against the tan background of the view post elements.

From which, ATM-like, I will conclude that you have admitted that teal is superior

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Watching a group of Christians talk about Islam is entertaining

Why not a Muslim Cleric, then? I know relevant content can get lost in the bickering.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYuHJ1mrsLI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmcCmjhO8KQ

I'd say it's pretty much 99% relevant to exactly what's being discussed here.

 

[BugI02]

I think, conceptually, there are far more shades of gray than those 3.

Allah may exist as the shared God of all 3 religious traditions. Mohammed may or may not be a prophet to whom He revealed Himself for that audience at that time. Mohammed may be a false prophet, or even THE false prophet. (I think this unlikely, based on some shared traditions of evaluating fruit.)

I know what I believe (after much scrutiny). I do not claim to know all that is True, let alone all that could be True.

You left out Haile Selassie

 

[T.Lex]

You left out Haile Selassie

While I do not know all that COULD be true, there are some assertions that I put way way way WAY down on the list of possibilities.

 

[BugI02]

3? .... Oh, Judaism? I guess I haven't seen any arguments for that.

The problem is that Islam and Christianity are wholly incompatible at their core - Christ makes the explicit claim (and clarified by Paul) that salvation only comes from Grace given by Him to those that have faith in Him. Islam makes the claim that salvation can be earned through righteous living. [or equally, through 'righteous' dying]

Islam created a whole set of new laws above and beyond the Jewish holy laws, whereas Christian knocked down those laws. (see my "life verse", Acts 10:13 )

*.*

 

[printcraft]

Watching a group of Christians talk about Islam is entertaining

There is a reason they and others are talking about it, and it is NOT just random curiosity.

I doubt anybody just woke up one day after several decades on this planet and said, without cause, "Man, I feel like picking a religion at random and taking a stand against it's practices!".

 

[BugI02]

Just bumping this

OK, as long as

hogslayer( does't start talking about himself in the third person )

 

[Benp]

.

 

[BugI02]

While I do not know all that COULD be true, there are some assertions that I put way way way WAY down on the list of possibilities.

Touché. Although it's possible this could be a burgeoning concept in places such as CO, WA, OR and Cali

 

[jamil]

Jamil, I can only speak for myself. What bothers me is not that the percentage of Muslims who perpetrate or support violent jihad does not rise to a sufficiently high enough numerical threshold, ignoring for the moment that it is still far more than the number of Christians who use similar methodology

What bothers me is that Muslims can apparently employ these methods and lie about their goals and intent, even to the point in some cases of denying the shahada, without violating the precepts of their religion or seperating themselves from their god

This is simply not true of Christianity. To deny God or distort his message cannot be justified by the book and is the road to damnation

I am more trusting of adherents of a religion that condemns the worst excesses of humanity without exception than I am of adherents of a religion that makes allowable exceptions. This would be true of religions that I am not adherent to. I would trust a Buddhist over a Muslim in this context

It seems the radical Muslims have created an "out" to get around the precepts of their religion. So as long as they're waging jihad they're permitted to indulge in worldly things, and lie, and whatever. But you're right. Any Christian group that tried that nonsense would get the "cult" label slapped on them and there'd be stacks of books written against them by every mainstream Christian Theologian.

 

[Think]

Well, the billion isn't an exact number, and doesn't reflect the total of Muslims in history, but yeah... when all tallied up, IMHO the effect of Islam on humanity is that the followers tend to be normal people.



ETA:

Not really a rule 34 thing (yet), it looks like the internet DOES have at least 1 pic of a hijab truck

What's wrong with this ?

 

[Think]

For Think:

What's the difference between a religion that commands it's followers to violence on unbelievers and a religion that only sounds like it commands it's followers to violence on unbelievers?

Hi hog slayer.

I don't think that I can understand your point exactly. Would you further elaborate ?

 

[Think]

The creator of Islam knows full well that the Bible is the Word of God, yet paradoxically commands his followers to obey it while violating its core tenets.

Although Muslims believe that Prophet Moses received Torah and Prophet Jesus received the Gospel, they believe that the bible is a collection of books written by many authors that contains much of the truth,like the call to reject idols and false deities, however it doesn't represent the "literal" word of God.

 

[Think]

3? .... Oh, Judaism? I guess I haven't seen any arguments for that.

The problem is that Islam and Christianity are wholly incompatible at their core - Christ makes the explicit claim (and clarified by Paul) that salvation only comes from Grace given by Him to those that have faith in Him. Islam makes the claim that salvation can be earned through righteous living.

Islam created a whole set of new laws above and beyond the Jewish holy laws, whereas Christian knocked down those laws. (see my "life verse", Acts 10:13 )

Well, that's one of my favorite verses from the bible:


It reminds me how the message of all Prophets of God is the same in its core

 

[PaulF]

Jamil, I can only speak for myself. What bothers me is not that the percentage of Muslims who perpetrate or support violent jihad does not rise to a sufficiently high enough numerical threshold, ignoring for the moment that it is still far more than the number of Christians who use similar methodology

What bothers me is that Muslims can apparently employ these methods and lie about their goals and intent, even to the point in some cases of denying the shahada, without violating the precepts of their religion or seperating themselves from their god

This is simply not true of Christianity. To deny God or distort his message cannot be justified by the book and is the road to damnation

I am more trusting of adherents of a religion that condemns the worst excesses of humanity without exception than I am of adherents of a religion that makes allowable exceptions. This would be true of religions that I am not adherent to. I would trust a Buddhist over a Muslim in this context

I disagree with the bolded point, in particular. According to most Christians (and my own understanding of the bible), faith in Jesus alone is the price of salvation. If Stalin had accepted Jesus as his savior on his death bed, Stalin would be allowed to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. On the other hand, a dying three year-old in India is damned to an eternity in hell due to their "sins", simply because they have never had an opportunity to hear the "good news". By biblical logic Timothy McVeigh is enjoying heaven while the many Jewish cops and firemen that responded and died in 9/11 are suffering an eternity in hell.

A Christian can commit literally any Earthly evil they choose...as long as they believe in Jesus their salvation is secure.

 

[hog slayer]

I disagree with the bolded point, in particular. According to most Christians (and my own understanding of the bible), faith in Jesus alone is the price of salvation. If Stalin had accepted Jesus as his savior on his death bed, Stalin would be allowed to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. On the other hand, a dying three year-old in India is damned to an eternity in hell due to their "sins", simply because they have never had an opportunity to hear the "good news". By biblical logic Timothy McVeigh is enjoying heaven while the many Jewish cops and firemen that responded and died in 9/11 are suffering an eternity in hell.

A Christian can commit literally any Earthly evil they choose...as long as they believe in Jesus their salvation is secure.

This is a difficult one. But, necessary. A Christian is to go into the world and spread the gospel. If Stalin had accepted Jesus on his death bed, then according to the account of the crucifixion Stalin would enter the kingdom of heaven. The earthly hero's, should they never accept Jesus, no matter how good their deeds, will spend eternity apart from God.

The last paragraph/ question: a Christian is known by his works although his works cannot save him.