Colorado Senate Passes Bill to Circumvent Electoral College

[hoosierdoc]

Impeach every single person who voted for that. CO citizens want their vote to not count?

 

[Mongo59]

All the liberals have to do is keep the polls in Chicago's cemeteries open a few extra hours the Republican party will have to start playing rope-a-dope...

 

[Ingomike]

I don't pretend to be a constitutional scholar, but I read that as the electors (people) are selected (chosen to be electors - again, people) in a manner dictated by the states. I don't read that as "the electors will be directed to cast their votes in a manner dictated by the states". In theory, the electors can override the popular vote within their state, but rarely, if ever have done so. This new proposal would basically be saying that even if 100% of the voters in Indiana (for example) voted for candidate A, but these large metropolitan areas voted for candidate B, then Indiana's electors MUST vote for candidate B. And nobody sees a problem with that from a constitutional standpoint?

There is a reason that each state gets 2 senators, regardless of population, while representatives are allocated by population. It's a checks and balances type of thing. I see the electoral college in the same manner.

I also am not a constitutional scholar, but I will share my understanding. In Indiana we are technically voting for a slate of electors that are pledged to vote for candidate A or the competing slates that are pledged to candidate B or C. The specific electors are based on which slate gets the vote. That is why if an elector changes their pledged vote the party running the slate will replace them typically. The rational is the slate of electors are elected to vote the people's will in the electoral college.

Indiana's law is the electors vote for the winner of the statewide popular vote. If the Colorado law went into effect their electors would vote for the national popular vote winner.

MM

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I also am not a constitutional scholar, but I will share my understanding. In Indiana we are technically voting for a slate of electors that are pledged to vote for candidate A or the competing slates that are pledged to candidate B or C. The specific electors are based on which slate gets the vote. That is why if an elector changes their pledged vote the party running the slate will replace them typically. The rational is the slate of electors are elected to vote the people's will in the electoral college.

Indiana's law is the electors vote for the winner of the statewide popular vote. If the Colorado law went into effect their electors would vote for the national popular vote winner.

MM

That part I get. And I think it's dead wrong. Might as well only have elections in LA, Chicago and NYC, since theirs will be the only votes that count. Which is of course what the Democrats are trying for.

 

[Kutnupe14]

That part I get. And I think it's dead wrong. Might as well only have elections in LA, Chicago and NYC, since theirs will be the only votes that count. Which is of course what the Democrats are trying for.

Actually, in a popular vote every individual vote counts.

 

[Ingomike]

That part I get. And I think it's dead wrong. Might as well only have elections in LA, Chicago and NYC, since theirs will be the only votes that count. Which is of course what the Democrats are trying for.

I don't like it but was explaining it in response to a post suggesting the courts would knock this down and it was unconstitutional. Like it or not the left will likely control the electoral college in the near future and conservatives only hope might be this tact to get all the conservative under vote that do not turn out because they live in a blue state. It would be somewhat sad but still amusing if all the states that are shown repealed it and all the conservative states approved it.

Remember that the Hillary campaign feared Trump winning the popular vote, not losing the electoral college, and actually had prepared for that possibility prior the Election Day.
MM

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Actually, in a popular vote every individual vote counts.

Not under this proposed new system. Like I said, if 100% of Indiana voters voted for candidate A, but the candidate B garnered more of the popular vote, and Indiana's electors were forced to vote for candidate B, despite nobody in Indiana voting for candidate B, then our votes didn't count. Our electors were forced to vote the way of the higher population centers. You would have the most densely populated areas determining the outcome, which would only serve the wants of those population centers and totally ignore those of us in "flyover country". As I said, that's why all states have 2 senators, as a check on the House, in which the representation is based on population. It's the same principal with the electoral college. It gives the less densely populated areas a voice, when their voices are combined with the other less densely populated areas.

IF they did away with the electoral college, THEN each individual vote would count, but that's not what's being proposed. WITH the electoral college still in place, this new proposal disenfranchises a very large area of the country by forcing their electors to vote with the states with higher populations.

 

[Ingomike]

Actually, in a popular vote every individual vote counts.

Every vote counts in an electoral college election as well. It is actually 50 separate mini elections.

MM

 

[Ingomike]

I would also say the easy states are already in, it will be tough sledding for most states to join this. Then as they get closer to the goal the stakes will be enormous, then it will look like one of the biggest fights you have ever seen.

MM

 

[GIJEW]

I would also say the easy states are already in, it will be tough sledding for most states to join this. Then as they get closer to the goal the stakes will be enormous, then it will look like one of the biggest fights you have ever seen.

MM

^^^THIS^^^
Just because the left has introduced this legislation all over the country, as if they were passing out leaflets, doesn't mean it's going to pass

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I would also say the easy states are already in, it will be tough sledding for most states to join this. Then as they get closer to the goal the stakes will be enormous, then it will look like one of the biggest fights you have ever seen.

MM

It's a fight that needs to be fought. The "approvers" so far, are expected blue states. And the control in this matter should remain with the states. There are a lot more red states than blue, but the blue states have the largest population centers. (and are awarded electors accordingly I might add) That's precisely why the electoral college works the way it does.

Regardless of population, people in wide open rural America are naturally going to have different key issues than people in densely populated areas. That doesn't mean that the rural dwellers' issues aren't legitimate. This proposal ignores the wishes of the population of a very large area of the U.S..

 

[Ingomike]

It's a fight that needs to be fought. The "approvers" so far, are expected blue states. And the control in this matter should remain with the states. There are a lot more red states than blue, but the blue states have the largest population centers. (and are awarded electors accordingly I might add) That's precisely why the electoral college works the way it does.

Regardless of population, people in wide open rural America are naturally going to have different key issues than people in densely populated areas. That doesn't mean that the rural dwellers' issues aren't legitimate. This proposal ignores the wishes of the population of a very large area of the U.S..

There is an enormous divide between rural and urban people. I believe a big part of it is a disconnect from nature and what one learns with a farm/country upbringing. For instance, a far larger percentage of the urban raised believe the global warming projections than rural raised do in my experience. The rural usually have better understanding of where food comes from, what food is, how things are built. Many of the urban have never seen a gun, used tools, even raised a garden. With where we live almost everyone has a car, not so in urban areas. The urban have never ran a chain saw, cut a tree down or split wood to warm their home.

Bureaucracies both government and corporate provide everything for the urban dweller. Power, water, transportation, more recently their food is delivered to their apartment or townhome, they don't even have to "hunt" for a grocery store. They live in a virtual reality where they work and socialize online. They continue to be further isolated from the roots of existence, the lack of knowledge of those roots allows others to exploit that ignorance.

MM

 

[Mongo59]

There is an enormous divide between rural and urban people. I believe a big part of it is a disconnect from nature and what one learns with a farm/country upbringing. For instance, a far larger percentage of the urban raised believe the global warming projections than rural raised do in my experience. The rural usually have better understanding of where food comes from, what food is, how things are built. Many of the urban have never seen a gun, used tools, even raised a garden. With where we live almost everyone has a car, not so in urban areas. The urban have never ran a chain saw, cut a tree down or split wood to warm their home.

Bureaucracies both government and corporate provide everything for the urban dweller. Power, water, transportation, more recently their food is delivered to their apartment or townhome, they don't even have to "hunt" for a grocery store. They live in a virtual reality where they work and socialize online. They continue to be further isolated from the roots of existence, the lack of knowledge of those roots allows others to exploit that ignorance.

MM

Well said. I, for one, did not move out away from the cities to pay taxes on my land and be ruled over by city dwellers who want me to peel them a grape. Phew, I feel better now.

Seriously, I can't understand the urban way of thinking. I guess it comes from a lack of trust of my fellow man. I wasn't born with that lack of trust, it was learned.

An example: I went into the Marines as a wide eyed 17yo, I had to get my parents to sign for me to go in. I was always taught we are all the same and I had no reason to doubt it. Right off, well after the dust settled and the initial fear subsided, I could tell there is a notable difference in speech, manors, socialization and intelligence between these 72 people called a platoon.

I don't know if you ever took the ASVAB which stands for Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery and I can't speak for it today but back in the 70's you didn't even have to know how to read to take it. It would be a picture of a hammer and you would have to chose and circle the most appropriate answer from a picture of a bolt, a screw or a nail. Real cutting edge stuff.

Well, a few weeks into training some NCO's showed up in our squad bay and collected six inner city recruits and escorted them away. We had no idea what was going on. Later our senior drill instructor told us they had been washed out... for buying the answers to the ASVAB!

That was a changing point in my life. It isn't that I felt superior in some self confirming way, it was more that when I would talk to them and get a head nod and a distant stare they weren't mocking me, they just didn't understand me. And it wasn't a philosophical barrier but a mechanical one, the words that I used did not register to them.

Granted it was the Marines and you have to adjust the scale accordingly, but I had no previous idea people like this existed... and they vote, drive cars and run for office.

Be afraid, be very afraid...

 

[BluedSteel]

The result of this will be a small group of big cities picking the president every election. The Illinois/Chicago model run on a national scale. No reason to even campaign, just go to the corrupt machine that runs those big cities and buy the vote, the rest of the country won't matter.

Technically, in the Illinois/Chicago and NYC/DC model we already don't matter. Just sayin'

 

[HoughMade]

This violates the spirit of the Constitution, not the text, even by originalists standards. I paraphrase, the electors are selected in a manner dictated by the states.

Sorry, nice thought...

IM

Yep. The Framers never envisioned a scenario where the states would willingly cede their power to other states, let alone a popular vote. This is why the Constitution mandated that the state legislatures choose Senators, which later short-sighted idiots gave up.

 

[T.Lex]

I'm sorry - I'm looking for the states' rights thread.

This isn't it.

 

[BugI02]

I'm sorry - I'm looking for the states' rights thread.

This isn't it.

I don't think we're supposed to post about civil war - even ones that have already happened

 

[MarkC]

Sure, this is a states' rights issue. If they want to repeat earlier mistakes, such as the direct election of senators, states are free to seek to amend the Constitution. There are [STRIKE]a few[/STRIKE] four ways to do it, but the one that has been most used up to now involves getting their elected representatives to pass a proposed amendment by a two-thirds majority of each chamber of Congress then submit to the states.

Fortunately, states that aren't ate up with liberalism still have enough clout to stop most of these.

However, sometimes a critical mass of "good idea" and "we have to do something!" people can accomplish the improbable. For example, the Eighteenth Amendment which created Prohibition. Seemed like a good idea to enough people, right?

 

[Ingomike]

Well said. I, for one, did not move out away from the cities to pay taxes on my land and be ruled over by city dwellers who want me to peel them a grape. Phew, I feel better now.

Seriously, I can't understand the urban way of thinking. I guess it comes from a lack of trust of my fellow man. I wasn't born with that lack of trust, it was learned.

An example: I went into the Marines as a wide eyed 17yo, I had to get my parents to sign for me to go in. I was always taught we are all the same and I had no reason to doubt it. Right off, well after the dust settled and the initial fear subsided, I could tell there is a notable difference in speech, manors, socialization and intelligence between these 72 people called a platoon.

I don't know if you ever took the ASVAB which stands for Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery and I can't speak for it today but back in the 70's you didn't even have to know how to read to take it. It would be a picture of a hammer and you would have to chose and circle the most appropriate answer from a picture of a bolt, a screw or a nail. Real cutting edge stuff.

Well, a few weeks into training some NCO's showed up in our squad bay and collected six inner city recruits and escorted them away. We had no idea what was going on. Later our senior drill instructor told us they had been washed out... for buying the answers to the ASVAB!

That was a changing point in my life. It isn't that I felt superior in some self confirming way, it was more that when I would talk to them and get a head nod and a distant stare they weren't mocking me, they just didn't understand me. And it wasn't a philosophical barrier but a mechanical one, the words that I used did not register to them.

Granted it was the Marines and you have to adjust the scale accordingly, but I had no previous idea people like this existed... and they vote, drive cars and run for office.

Be afraid, be very afraid...

Just read an Indystar article on bobcat hunting seasons. The meetings on the issue take place in the urban areas where the people least involved live and have an easy time packing a hearing room to create the impression of total opposition. The anthropomorphization that Walt Disney began with Bambi continues and a bunch of urban dwellers that are being bilked by ASPCA show up to stop a hunting season of little kitties.

Just another manifestation of the Urban/rural gap in understanding of life.

MM

 

[MarkC]

Just read an Indystar article on bobcat hunting seasons. The meetings on the issue take place in the urban areas where the people least involved live and have an easy time packing a hearing room to create the impression of total opposition. The anthropomorphization that Walt Disney began with Bambi continues and a bunch of urban dwellers that are being bilked by ASPCA show up to stop a hunting season of little kitties.

Just another manifestation of the Urban/rural gap in understanding of life.

MM

As noted by Mongo, these people vote, drive cars, and run for office.

Because of their lack of understanding, they are opposed to allowing those who are not properly "vetted" to their standards to do things for themselves. For example, they don't believe you should be allowed to work on your own air conditioning, because it might be bad for the environment. Any kind of home improvement that involves structural building, electricity, or plumbing has to be inspected and approved. They don't understand and are fearful of firearms, and believe they should be limited to police and the government. It occurred to me long ago that these folks are not self-sufficient in any way, and they do not trust any one who want to "do it yourself," including providing for your own self-protection.

I recognize there are important reasons to license some things. I don't want my neighbor's septic system to expel untreated effluent, for example. But those people and I have a sharp difference of opinion as to where to put the line.