Comm Test

[eldirector]

I led a little communications discussion for the Hendricks County MSG a few weeks ago. It wasn't much of a presentation (I only know so much), but it led to a great discussion about the different radio options, and their pros/cons. I thought I'd do a little follow-up for that group, but post it here for anyone who has an interest.

I had to travel from the Indy area to Louisville for work on Monday. As is my habit, I popped on my CB antenna before I left (it has a quick connect), so I could listen to the truckers for some entertainment. A bit before the Outlet Mall exit, I started to pick up one of the local truck stops advertising their services. I decided to try a little range test, and they helped me out.

My setup is a little Midland CB and a 3' FireStik antenna. It is tuned pretty well, with an SWR of about 1.5 or less across the whole band. Not sure what the truck stop was running, other than a stock base radio (4 watts) and a small antenna tower outside. They were located at the US-31/I-65 interchange. I was heading southbound on I-65.

In the end, I was able to transmit (they heard me) and receive out to about 10 miles. I could still pick them up at 16 miles, but was well out of my radio's transmission distance.

So?

CB's are still a cheap, license-free way to communicate locally. By locally, I mean a pretty respectable distance. At least with a decent radio setup. They are MUCH better than FRS and GMRS hand-held radios, even though they advertise 25-35 mile ranges (my tests yielded no more than 2 miles). A good CB base station (with a tall antenna) can cover a decent range. The fact that the CBs can be a base station, a mobile unit, or even handheld makes them really flexible.

Sure, it isn't HAM. But, if you need to talk within your county, for pretty cheap, and without a license (either you or the person on the other end), then CB might work pretty well.

I've about got my wife talked into experimenting with a base station and reasonably tall antenna at home. I'd like to try Single Side band radios as well. They can run 12 watts on certain channels, to talk with other SSB radios, in addition to the standard 40 channels at 4 watts. My goal is to be able to talk between my vehicle at work and my wife at home (about 8-10 miles) in the event that phones (cell and landline) are down. Additionally, this may be a great way for MSG members to stay in contact during an emergency.

 

[Sailor]

Good job putting your plans into action.

CB is one tool in the comms toolbox.

I mention it just briefly in my classes.

If you were limit yourself to one radio though I would choose a 2 meter mobile unit over CB any day. Most emergency traffic will be on 2 meters. From a purely intel point of view 2 meters will be more useful.

Hams on 2 meters have the ability to talk the world on low power. Intel will more likely be repeated on 2 meters vs CB.

I can talk simplex (radio to radio) 25 mile with my 2 meter rig, and 100 miles using a repeater. I have a about a 35 mile range with my 2 meter HT

During an emergency anyone can use ham radio. But the test is so easy 8 yr olds pass it all the time.

I have CB but due to the above I just do not use it much anymore.

 

[10Forward]

Good job putting your plans into action.
Hams on 2 meters have the ability to talk the world on low power. Intel will more likely be repeated on 2 meters vs CB.

I can talk simplex (radio to radio) 25 mile with my 2 meter rig, and 100 miles using a repeater. I have a about a 35 mile range with my 2 meter HT

During an emergency anyone can use ham radio. But the test is so easy 8 yr olds pass it all the time.

Sounds like the Morse requirement for a ham license is no more?

 

[eldirector]

I don't know enough about ham to have much of an opinion. I suppose I need to add that to my "skills to acquire" list.

So, during an emergency, I can use ham w/o a license? If others in our group also had 2 meter radios, and an ice storm hit the area, we could all talk w/o worry? Didn't know that. Always assumed you needed a license.

Can 2-meter radios (or any ham radio, for that matter) also use the CB frequencies? That sounds like a nice dual-purpose radio, if so.

I did take an online practice test for the technicians license. Didn't study one bit, and was one question from passing.

 

[Sailor]

Correct.

And there is software for your phone and computer and can decode it well enough to understand the message. That is not to say that the skill is not useful. Its on the list but my list is lonnnnnng.

 

[Sailor]

PM inbound.

Emergency, life or death you can use any means to get help. Some ham radios can work on CB but this is illegal per the FTC.

First I would set up group texting with your group. Texts get through much easier than voice. Use this as your primary and radio as back up.

I don't know enough about ham to have much of an opinion. I suppose I need to add that to my "skills to acquire" list.

So, during an emergency, I can use ham w/o a license? If others in our group also had 2 meter radios, and an ice storm hit the area, we could all talk w/o worry? Didn't know that. Always assumed you needed a license.

Can 2-meter radios (or any ham radio, for that matter) also use the CB frequencies? That sounds like a nice dual-purpose radio, if so.

I did take an online practice test for the technicians license. Didn't study one bit, and was one question from passing.

 

[10Forward]

Correct.

And there is software for your phone and computer and can decode it well enough to understand the message. That is not to say that the skill is not useful. Its on the list but my list is lonnnnnng.

That's what I thought, I'd mentioned it in a different thread but wasn't 100% sure if it had been eliminated or not. I actually know Morse, once upon a time I could copy at 25 GPM. Now, ice cold and 20+ years later, I could probably still sit down and do 10 GPM, if I had to guess.

About the only thing it's useful for now is being able to tell when morse is being used a movie, more often than not it's garbage being sent, not what is being described in the movie.

 

[Sailor]

Being able to comm with another continent using a 9v battery as power and a key is interesting though.

 

[Bill B]

a nice article about 2-meter radio How Far Can I Talk on 2 Meters?
basically, in an ideal world a 25w radio with an antenna at 30ft would give reliable comms out to 40 miles on fm and roughly 60 miles on ssb.
I know it's kind of a necro-post, but I haven't seen it discussed more recently.

 

[Sailor]

Those figures are very generous from my experience. But I have not tested over 100% flat terrain like an ocean.

I have confirmed 40 miles base to mobile, with me pushing 175 w. 29 ft antenna.

 

[Bill B]

The antenna and feedline is everything. A crappy feedline can rob quite a bit of power from your radio.
For example, 100 watt radio output, run through 15 meters of rg58 cable to a half wave dipole antenna will effectively radiate only 26 watts @146.52mhz. The same setup to a 5/8 wave will have an erp of 74 watts while a two element yagi will have an erp of 178 watts.

 

[Sailor]

I run LMR-400 at home it is a longer run. That test was only bout 50ft of cheaper coax, some loss, but 175w made up for it.

I can reach 50 mile repeaters at home easy 100 plus miles if conditions are good for ducting. But terrain gets in the way.

 

[CookieMonster]

175 watts for 40 miles doesn't sound very good to me. Just yesterday I managed 25 miles mobile-to-base on 12 watts on lower sideband (Galaxy 959 w/ 5' FireStick) On my Imax-2000 base antenna (38 feet to bottom of antenna) with the same radio, I can talk 40+ miles base-to-base regularly. Granted the signal is a little fuzzy, but I could still have a conversation. On my Yaesu FT-840 (100 watts LSB) I can talk 75+ miles and have talked roughly 100 miles, but with marginal signal quality.

Personally, I feel there is always a need for all types of communication equipment, including CB. However, for a regular 40 radio, AM only, I wouldn't waste my time with it. If an HF radio doesn't have sideband on it, IMO, it's not worth owning.

 

[CathyInBlue]

CB emissions live out around 27 MHz. They're channellized, and not entirely sequentially. It would be easier to modify a 12 m (25 MHz) or 10 m (29 MHz) radio to work on CB freqs than a 2 m (144 MHz) radio.

CBs only work with one of two radio emission types: 6K00A3E and 3K00H3E, or 6 kHz AM voice and 3 kHz SSB voice. Anything else is likely to be unintelligible, like FM emissions, which are the most popular on the 2 m band. CB emissions are further restricted in transmission power to a maximum of 4 W AM and 12 W PEP SSB. The FCC (Not FTC, WTF did that come from?) gets tchichy when people produce amplifiers for the 27 MHz band. Strictly speaking, there's nothing illegal about producing, say, a radio capable of 100 W on 10 m as well as operating on the CB band with a built-in power limitter to remain legal, but the mere fact of a CB circuit and a 100 W amplifier circuit being in the same housing can give FCC agents "the vapours".

 

[Tactical Dave]

I used to know a really good comm guy, had lots of toys VHF UHF and HF, he always tought that the antenna/wire was just as important as the radio itself....

CB's are good and fairly cheap comm for short range stuff. I used to have a nice HF radio until it got lost when it was sent in for repairs back in the 90's.... (Long story). I'd like to get back into it at some point but it will be a while.... Radios are like my guns.... I don't like the cheap ones......


would like a descent VHF base and a nice HF at some point.


i have seen a rather impressive HF set up in the past that was simple yet effective.... Along with a nice UHF, a pole or two and some wire..... Very low cost and could talk to almost anyone.... There is a guy on the south side that has many TOWERS in his back yard.