Comment on the OBR proposal...

[witdog2020]

We sound alot alike, I deer hunt for the enjoyment of it, antlers are just a plus.

I spoke with the state biologist before the OBR was put into effect. He stated it has never been proven to "work" anywhere it's been implemented. A hunter will pass that "smaller" buck early in the season, but would take it later in ML season. In other words a wash.

I agree with Willie about the TBR trial. It really cannot be proven the OBR is the reason some might be seeing more mature bucks. Could it possibly be that a percentage of hunters have matured and moved beyond the antler thing to simply enjoying the chance to be out in the woods?

We were asked to try the OBR almost ten years ago. What's wrong with a 2-3 year trial of a TBR? I contend some do not want it possibly proven the OBR is NOT the reason there are more mature bucks. It would not fit their agenda.

I guess for me, I would be scared we would back track. Its taken 9 years of the OBR to really prove itself. I believe it has. If we were to try the TBR, after 3 years it seems to me it would be difficult to recover to the "more mature" bucks. It may take aanother 9yrs to get back after a 3yr failure? Its not about the bone really but about the size. It seems like the basic basket rack weighs in at 130ish field dressed that is. One of the bucks on my wall weighed 226#Fd, thats 100lbs more than a basket rack. Now it seems like if you are truly a meat hunter, than the OBR would be the true method of growing larger deer.

The does now seem like they weigh in the 100lb FD range, I have a trophy, for a doe contest that weighed 160#FD 15+yrs ago, I killed many does in the 140 range with a bow. As a hunter that spends a lot of time in the field, I don't see those does anymore. I see 100lb does with yearlings, and its not for lack of food, they are surrounded by 1000's of acres of beans and corn, its because our Doe program doesnt work. I don't want more does, and more butcher fees, I want 1 bigger doe and cut down on fees. I am a lifetime license holder, if its fees DNR wants, I'll donate the $50. Just fix the program.

 

[Willie]

Firehawk,

No, a TBR trial will not happen. The DNR got a ton of egg on their faces on Deer Proposal #1. That wont happen again. They will not back down this time. Since I am the one asking for the TBR trial I'm sure it will get a thumb's down since I was a major thorn in their sides during the deer proposals.

Our own deer biologist has said that the ONLY way to determine if the OBR made any significant and worthwhile impact on our herd is to conduct a TBR trial. Any other conjecture of pro-OBR guys saying that the OBR made a difference is pure guessing.

Some would rather be fat and happy not knowing..

 

[simpleman44]

I agree with you willie. We need a tbr trial. I think the obr timing was horrable. We were at natural progression to getting bigger bucks. Ive not seen bucks getting bigger since the obr then they were before.

 

[Cpt Caveman]

The OBR has definitely worked in Brown County. We see more older, larger antlered bucks now than we did pre OBR.
Now if I can get my neighbor to stop slinging lead at running deer(I keep finding bucks shot in the butt/ stomach, dead on my place) I'd be in good shape.
What most folks don't realize is that trophy hunting( big antlers over good meat) is the height of privilege and luxury.
I quit hunting bucks a few years ago ( I'm 41) since I've never shot one that was older than three that I could stand to eat. I've never shot a yearling buck or a doe that tasted like an old goat smells. All the mature bucks I've shot did.
Guess some folks just let their desire for antlers overcome their taste buds.
My two oldest boys each shot their first deer this fall during ML season. A 175#( dressed)doe and a forkhorn buck consecutive evenings from the same stand. Great meat and no silly worrying about whether the antlers are big enough.

 

[witdog2020]

I agree with you willie. We need a tbr trial. I think the obr timing was horrable. We were at natural progression to getting bigger bucks. Ive not seen bucks getting bigger since the obr then they were before.

We had a TBR prior to the OBR for 15yrs and never saw this improvement, a Buck was allowed with a bow and another allowed with a firearm. I might add that Its been 9 yrs since the OBR took effect, but we have been seeing better quality bucks in tha last 3-4 yrs so it really didn't take 9yrs to see results.

So if everyone took 2 large bucks instead of one, how would you ever see and improvement in age of the bucks? there would be nothing left but small bucks. The math don't jive.

 

[Willie]

We had a TBR prior to the OBR for 15yrs and never saw this improvement, a Buck was allowed with a bow and another allowed with a firearm.

Poooey! The age shift trend started a long time before the 2002 season.

I might add that Its been 9 yrs since the OBR took effect, but we have been seeing better quality bucks in tha last 3-4 yrs so it really didn't take 9yrs to see results.

Again, the DNR deer biologist says that they can not give the OBR alone the credit. It will takes a 3 to 4 year study NOW with a two buck limit to tell. But some Indiana deer hunters says " OBR works" and gives absolutely no credit to QDM, older deer hunters, more experienced deer hunters and most importantly - SELECTIVE DEER HUNTERS..

So if everyone took 2 large bucks instead of one, how would you ever see and improvement in age of the bucks? there would be nothing left but small bucks. The math don't jive.

LOL...95+% of the Indiana deer hunters don't kill 1 "large buck" a year, much less knocking down two.

\
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[Willie]

The OBR has definitely worked in Brown County. We see more older, larger antlered bucks now than we did pre OBR.
..............

And I saw "more older, larger antlered bucks" in 2001 (Pre- OBR) than I did in 1991. It is a natural progression...especially in a growing herd..

 

[witdog2020]

And I saw "more older, larger antlered bucks" in 2001 (Pre- OBR) than I did in 1991. It is a natural progression...especially in a growing herd..

It hasn't been the same result for everybody just the majority and thats all it takes.

 

[Willie]

It hasn't been the same result for everybody just the majority and thats all it takes.

Then why not find out for sure with a two buck trial ?

 

[trapperDave]

The math don't jive.

Boy you said it right there! The MATH doesnt jive. As many or MORE bucks have been killed each year since OBR came into effect. So where is all these "saved" deer?

 

[witdog2020]

Boy you said it right there! The MATH doesnt jive. As many or MORE bucks have been killed each year since OBR came into effect. So where is all these "saved" deer?

Its been an interesting debate. I can't say any of us are right, time will tell.

 

[firehawk1]

Its been an interesting debate. I can't say any of us are right, time will tell.

Thing is, IF we don't even attempt a TBR trial we will never know what time will tell.

Ignorance isn't always bliss.

 

[IndianaSlim]

Actually, my corner of the state (NW) is going to have the chance to see what going back to two bucks will do. With the implement of county wide urban zones in lake and porter counties, you can now kill 2 bucks. While I'm not going to kill 2 mature deer due to personal and farm wide management plans, I am going to be more than happy to shoot a management buck! While I'm far southern porter county and share all of my deer with jasper county on most farms, I'm very interested to see what the rest of the county sees in the next 5 years.

 

[xring62]

Stay one buck rule . NO EARN A BUCK rule [I wont do it,but fake it] too many does been killed around my area. See hardly any now compared to 88-2008. I want to see many deer when I hunt ,I love big antlers ,but love deer 'hunting' more. Ive got record bucks,but like the little ones justas much,its about the harvest & experiance,NOT who's bagged the biggest rack.

 

[djl02]

I never have taken advantage of taking 2 bucks,even when it was legal. I dont think a trial period would hurt. Put an end to all the speculation once and for all, whether the obr works or not.
Theres people out there that dont like the obr and ignore it anyway. Poachers will always poach, no matter how we try to manage the herd.
I personally see more bucks these days,but Im hunting in a different woods than I did before obr. The deer dont seem to get any bigger than 140 to 150 class,no matter how old they get. I have taken 2 mature bucks over 5 1/2 and they seem to just stop growing (antler mass) after there 4th set. Wish they would introduce some genetics management in indiana. I use to see wide heavey racked bucks on the other end of the county,but no longer have permission to hunt there. I would love to turn loose one of those bucks,in the area where i now hunt. These deer have the tine length,just dont get over a 16 inch spread.
They either have the genetics to make a nice buck or they dont,doesnt matter how much you let them walk.

 

[Willie]

I never have taken advantage of taking 2 bucks,even when it was legal. I dont think a trial period would hurt. Put an end to all the speculation once and for all, whether the obr works or not.
Theres people out there that dont like the obr and ignore it anyway. Poachers will always poach, no matter how we try to manage the herd.
I personally see more bucks these days,but Im hunting in a different woods than I did before obr. The deer dont seem to get any bigger than 140 to 150 class,no matter how old they get. I have taken 2 mature bucks over 5 1/2 and they seem to just stop growing (antler mass) after there 4th set. Wish they would introduce some genetics management in indiana. I use to see wide heavey racked bucks on the other end of the county,but no longer have permission to hunt there. I would love to turn loose one of those bucks,in the area where i now hunt. These deer have the tine length,just dont get over a 16 inch spread.
They either have the genetics to make a nice buck or they dont,doesnt matter how much you let them walk.

Well said....

Even our deer biologist cant say for sure if the OBR has made difference, but some deer hunter praise it to high heaven.

Lets give him a go at a two buck trial and then let the chips fall where they may.