Concealed carry or open carry, what is your preference?

[SavageEagle]

lets say for some "reason" i didnt have my soft case on my scoped .22 rifle. do you think that the cops or anyone else may have noticed an open long gun and perhaps done something about it?

I considered sitting there for a longer time period just to see if anything would happen, but I didnt have the desire to watch the game.

First, a scoped .22 at your local HS? How'd you get away with that?

Second, If you were sitting there, and there was a range there, and you had you rifle slung over your shoulder, there's nothing they could have done except say "Hey, nice rifle. Please put it away." "Thanks! No." "Ok."




Pami, honestly, I can see where it COULD be construed as such, but if it's just slung and you are just walking down the sidewalk, there's really nothing they can do. Unless there is an ordinace that specifically states that you can't sling a loaded rifle in town, then they can slap you with whatever charge they want, but when you sue the IMPD or WTEVRPD, I'm sure you'll either 1) get the charges dropped and a hardy "Sorry, can we clean your gun before you go?" or 2) get enough money to not only pay your lawyer off, but have enough money for the next 20 Appleseeds, Pistol Combat Traingings, and all the ammo you would need. Maybe even a new house, car, no debt, and that new P99QA and Natalie's Sig! LOL

Seriously though, I don't think they can do anything but harass you. Even then, minor inconvience, on with my day. Been there done that.

 

[Slab]

First, a scoped .22 at your local HS? How'd you get away with that?

My school has a rifle range where we compete against a military school and an ROTC program.
On tuesday evenings the rifle coach opens the range to the public as long as the provide their own ammo.
Its a great place to try new products or practice with stuff.

 

[SavageEagle]

Pami, sorry, didn't see your last post. I don't think it would be disrupting the peace in anyway. If so they need to arrest the hairy back woman at the state fair, or the punk with the mohawk and the F U teeshirt on walking down main street, or even the muslim family on the airplanes. Disturbing the peace, or disrupting an assembly of people may sound broad, but if the disruption is not illegal like carrying a rifle then they can't do anything about it. They could, but it wouldn't stick. They'd have to arrest everyone OCing a handgun too.


Slab, that's awesome that your local HS has a range. I think all schools should have some kind of program like that.

Must be a private school?

 

[NateIU10]

My school has a rifle range where we compete against a military school and an ROTC program.
On tuesday evenings the rifle coach opens the range to the public as long as the provide their own ammo.
Its a great place to try new products or practice with stuff.

I'm a little rusty on the IC, but how do they get around the legal issues on school property? ESPECIALLY at a basketball game that is unrelated in all ways???

 

[Slab]

actually its a public school.
the team has been there for at least 30+ years.... you know back when people had different ideas about life.

I dont know that it would actually be "legal" for me to be on the school property with the firearm without the intent to just coming and going vs. hanging out at the game.

 

[stormryder]

I always carry, open or concealed depends where I am at.

 

[SBG40]

OPEN CARRY

For me, OC is a choice, as is CC.

I have never explained to Betty the Soccer Mom that it is perfectly legal for me to OC, but I wouldn't mind explaining if she asked.

I've been in crowded stores OCing and never was approached by any employees or security or local LE.

I don't prefer either OC or CC. I always carry. Whether it is OC or CC depends on the clothes I happen to be wearing at the time as well as the weather and just how I feel that particular day. Yesterday I CC'd a 6 7/8" stainless GP100 .357. I would have been OCing, but it was too cold not to wear my overcoat.

Yes i too do both open carry and concealed carry, it has a lot todo with the weather, and i'm also thankful that i live in a state that lets me do both with my " License To Carry Handgun State Of Indiana ".

 

[Lt. Commander]

The only time I've OC was when I was a LEO and there was a shield next to it.

1+


Scott

 

[xd45in]

I agree 100 %.Dont let them know you are carrying until you want them to know

 

[NateIU10]

I agree 100 %.Dont let them know you are carrying until you want them to know

And what if you "want them to know" you're armed so they don't choose to do something to you?

 

[s346k]

And what if you "want them to know" you're armed so they don't choose to do something to you?

then you will be the first target in a bad situation...

i conceal it the best i can. i agree with those of you stating no one should know about it until you (we) choose to inform them.

 

[NateIU10]

then you will be the first target in a bad situation...

i conceal it the best i can. i agree with those of you stating no one should know about it until you (we) choose to inform them.

Sorry, but that's a load of ever. You're entitled to your option to OC or CC, but as my esteemed colleague KDUBCR250 has pointed out, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. To make accusations that when I OC, I'll just be shot first, is unfounded and asinine.

 

[SavageEagle]

Sorry, but that's a load of ever. You're entitled to your option to OC or CC, but as my esteemed colleague KDUBCR250 has pointed out, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. To make accusations that when I OC, I'll just be shot first, is unfounded and asinine.

Name me a situation in which the guy OCing was specificlly targeted for doing such? Not one documented case that I can find.

If they don't know whether or not you are carrying you will be a target regardless. Why make yourself look like a soft target and allow them to get the upper hand and get too close to be able to draw your sidearm? Of course, either OC or CC, it won't matter in that case. But to show them you are armed before hand, they will more often than not find a different target or wait for you to leave to start their attack on their intended target.

If you were their predetermined target they will come at you no matter what.

 

[melensdad]

then you will be the first target in a bad situation...

Just curious, but when did any civilian ever get shot for OC by a bad guy?

There is NO as in ZERO, NONE, ZILCH evidence that your statement is true. I'd be satisfied if you showed me the FBI shooting data. This has been studied extensively and NOBODY has ever produced evidence of this claim having ever happened.

 

[dburkhead]

then you will be the first target in a bad situation...

i conceal it the best i can. i agree with those of you stating no one should know about it until you (we) choose to inform them.

People keep saying that but the evidence of it actually happening, is, well, non-existent. I won't say it never happens (Ayoob, in one of his books, describes two such cases) but the occurrence apears to be extremely low.

There are five basic possibilities if a BG comes on the scene with intent to do harm:

1) The BG didn't note your gun and chooses you as his first target (somebody has to be first).
2) The BG didn't note your gun and doesn't choose you as his first target.
The above two are functionally the same as if you were carrying concealed so we don't need to worry about them.

The next two options are:
3) BG notes your gun and decides to hit you first.
4) BG notes your gun and decides to hit someone else first.
Most people would agree that 3 is far more likely than 4.

However, there is the 5th possibility:
5) BG notes your gun and decides this isn't the time or place to do whatever harm he had originally intended.

The whole "advantage" issue of CC vs. OC relies on the question of whether 3 or 5 is more likely. 3 seems to be pretty rare (in any discussions I have ever seen on the topic those two cases from Ayoob's book were the only cases ever cited). 5, OTOH, is almost impossible to determine: how do you measure crimes that don't happen because the BG saw somebody armed and decided "now is not the time"?

Here's something to think about though: if the possibility that somebody might be armed deters crime (common justification for arguing in favor of permitting cc), then would not knowing that someone was armed deter crime even more? If someone is less likely to commit a crime because someone might be armed, would they not be even less likely to commit a crime where they know someone is armed?

 

[Prometheus]

Just curious, but when did any civilian ever get shot for OC by a bad guy?

There is NO as in ZERO, NONE, ZILCH evidence that your statement is true. I'd be satisfied if you showed me the FBI shooting data. This has been studied extensively and NOBODY has ever produced evidence of this claim having ever happened.

Exactly. I've heard idiots trumpeting this line for years. Not a single instance of it EVER happening in the USA in the past 100 years has ever been produced. Ayoobs two instances are, IMO highly questionable, suspect and quite honestly basically contrived to fit his agenda. I like him overall, but he's got some hangups.

Could it happen? Sure, but considering how many people have been shot and killed while CC'ing who never even had a chance to draw compared to no one ever being shot while OC'ing... OC'ing is the more logical choice if you prefer to not be robbed or shot.

I still CC more than I OC, but when I'm at a gas pump in a nasty area, you can bet I'm OC'ing and all the goblins give me a wide berth.

I believe there are a lot of wanna be gun fighters out there who wake up every morning and think "I hope someone tries to rob me today so I surprise them with my hidden roscoe! They'll be calling quick draw McConcealed!"

The only draw back to carrying openly is running into the opinioned or ignorant LEO on the States firearms laws. The only advantage to concealed carry is you avoid the very few and far between ignorant LEO's.

 

[s346k]

just an opinion, fellas, calm yourselves. i don't recall reading that a robbery or crime was thrwarted by the OCing of joerandom, either. neither of the cases could be proven as neither one has enough sustenance to support itself. your views are just as "asinine" and unfounded as mine, so there is really no need to determine only mine as such.

logic tells me that in the event of whatever bad situation, i'd be the first to bite a bullet if said BG knew i was carrying. i can't really see some dude popping a cap in grandma while i stand across the room with a 629 smith hanging down past my knee. to each their own.

 

[dburkhead]

just an opinion, fellas, calm yourselves. i don't recall reading that a robbery or crime was thrwarted by the OCing of joerandom, either. neither of the cases could be proven as neither one has enough sustenance to support itself. your views are just as "asinine" and unfounded as mine, so there is really no need to determine only mine as such.

logic tells me that in the event of whatever bad situation, i'd be the first to bite a bullet if said BG knew i was carrying. i can't really see some dude popping a cap in grandma while i stand across the room with a 629 smith hanging down past my knee. to each their own.

And, funny thing is, logic tells me that if the BG knew that I was carrying, he'd decide to rob someplace else, or come back another time.

The old saying is that "'Logic' is nothing more than a way of going wrong with confidence." The truth is, Logic is only a method of determining if conclusions follow from a given set of assumptions. It says nothing about whether the assumptions themselves are right or wrong.

As for "just an opinion": If the BG is more likely to go elsewhere if he sees someone carrying, then that's reality regardless of what someone's "opinion" might be.

Your opinion might be that one is more likely to be shot first if OCing, but the fact is that no one has been able to come up with more than two cases of it actually happening--and those two are questionable, as Prometheus points out.

You might also check out books like More Guns Less Crime. According to the studies of folk like Kleck, Lott, and others, a great many of the "gun defenses" that never make the crime reports are encounters that end when the BG simply becomes aware that the intended victim or someone in the area is armed. IOW, when somebody is, at that time, open carrying.

These aren't opinions, they are conclusions drawn from facts.

 

[s346k]

You might also check out books like More Guns Less Crime. According to the studies of folk like Kleck, Lott, and others, a great many of the "gun defenses" that never make the crime reports are encounters that end when the BG simply becomes aware that the intended victim or someone in the area is armed. IOW, when somebody is, at that time, open carrying.

These aren't opinions, they are conclusions drawn from facts.

The whole "advantage" issue of CC vs. OC relies on the question of whether 3 or 5 is more likely. 3 seems to be pretty rare (in any discussions I have ever seen on the topic those two cases from Ayoob's book were the only cases ever cited). 5, OTOH, is almost impossible to determine: how do you measure crimes that don't happen because the BG saw somebody armed and decided "now is not the time"?

so which is it? i believe you're saying it can't be determined either way despite the extensive research on both ends (but you're using way more words). i also think you are an open carry proponent, which is fine, but i won't try to argue my point to you citing people and books, etc.

you might be right, maybe visible guns do deter crime. i still refuse to hang my pistol out for everyone to see when i am in marsh getting a gallon of milk or at hooters eating some wings.

 

[cce1302]

I did not say that people that OC have an "attitude" about them, but rather that none of us are John Wayne or Clint Eastwood. Times are much different than they used to be. My thought on it all is just that its easier to CC than to have to talk to the cops on a regular basis.

It's easier to not carry at all. It's easier to not pay 125 bucks and get a license to carry a handgun. It's easier to hope that the cops will be there when you need them.

"Easy" is a pretty lame excuse for a reason to not carry openly. If you're afraid of what people might think, then just say so. If you're worried about disapproving stares from soccer moms, admit it. If you get giddy when you're approached by a police officer, I don't know what to tell you.

Keep the "guys who open carry are cowboys" stereotype going, and don't be surprised when the sheeple think that "only bad guys have guns."