Constitutional Right To Carry?

[Concerned Citizen]

Ive noticed a bunch of people state that the right to carry is "In The Constitution". Ive taken a few constitutional law courses as an ever-progressing student, and cant say that the issue has been touched on.

I dont know if its something people say because they believe it to be true and by saying its true enough that they can trick themselves into actually believing it, or if has been something that has been amended to the Constitution via the USSC.

Note: No Purple = Serious question.

LOL, I did 2 things, and they were: 1) asked a question 2) made the statement that I was asking 1 because Second Amendment rights werent expressly covered through the course of the constitutional law courses I have taken.

If you were able to misconstrue the question/ statement I made, maybe you should sit down and avoid further statements until you are able to increase your cognitive ability to comprehend what people post.

First of all, my cognitive abilities tell me there is not a single properly formed question in the OP. Second, you clearly state that your belief is that the right to carry is not 'touched on' in the constution. You claim to be a student of the constitution, but in 60 posts on this thread, I have yet to see a single post by you backing up your belief with a well formed argument, on either side of the issue.

Just Sayin'.

 

[Hoosierdood]

They don't. Two diff. words mean two diff. things. Keep means, not give up. Have would be, like posession.
Bear is, to hold, support, and rocket science is the study of rocketry.

I think I would have better luck talking to a wall. You have been shown through an abundance of evidence that you are wrong. You have been directed to actual dictionary entries to show that your definition of "bear" is incorrect. You have been encouraged to dig deeper into the writings of our founders in order to understand what THEY meant by the word "bear". Multiple posters have exposed the flawed logic that you have used.

And yet, you still claim that all the facts that have been brought to light must be wrong, and that your own opinion trumps actual evidence. The willful ignorance that you have displayed is simply amazing. To have such an opinion of one's self that you are not willing to admit that you are wrong when clearly proven to be is indeed sad.

I still say that the reason that you are not willing to concede to the truth is that it would totally blow your entire argument out of the water, and you would have to admit that you were wrong, and that would just rock your boat too much.


IGNORANCE IS BLISS.

 

[Stschil]

To bear arms in public is a privilege. You don't need that to bear arms in a dwelling.

WTF?

Please Sir, show us in the 2A where it says anything of the sort.

Who is mixing your Koolaid, Nancy Pelosi?

Show me where it says I need a permit to bear arms in the dwelling.

The 2nd Amendment as ratified by the States:

“ A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. ”

No where in the lines above does is say that bearing arms in public is a privilege, nowhere does it state that the right is to be confined to a persons dwelling. It states simply that the Right (not privilege) of the People (not army, militia, national guard, navy, air forces, marines, Gov't) Shall Not Be Infringed.

As stated by myself and others unthread, I kindly direct you to some research and reading of published journals, diaries, Continental Congressional papers, etc of the time. In these you will find the intent of the Framers and the true meaning of the 2nd Amendment. You simply cannot interject your personal feelings, indoctrinational public education or "modern" thinking into it.

 

[youngda9]

Some words from our founders that explain exactly what is meant. A refresher if you will: (Sorry for the long post, but this is very important)

“A free people ought to be armed.”
- George Washington

“Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples’ liberty’s teeth.”
- George Washington

“A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.”
- George Washington

“Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
- Benjamin Franklin

“The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.”
- Thomas Jefferson

“No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.”
- Thomas Jefferson

“The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes…. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”
- Thomas Jefferson (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria)

“A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks.” – Thomas Jefferson

“The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed.”
- Thomas Jefferson

“On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed.”
- Thomas Jefferson

“Arms in the hands of citizens may be used at individual discretion in private self defense.”
- John Adams

“To disarm the people is the most effectual way to enslave them.”
- George Mason

“I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians.” - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

“A government resting on the minority is an aristocracy, not a Republic, and could not be safe with a numerical and physical force against it, without a standing army, an enslaved press and a disarmed populace.”
- James Madison

“Americans have the right and advantage of being armed, unlike the people of other countries, whose leaders are afraid to trust them with arms.”
- James Madison

“The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country.”
- James Madison

“To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them.”
- Richard Henry Lee

“A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves … and include all men capable of bearing arms.”
- Richard Henry Lee

“Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined…. The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun.”
- Patrick Henry

When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny. – Thomas Jefferson

“The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms.”
- Samuel Adams

“The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them.”
- Joseph Story

“The ultimate authority … resides in the people alone. … The advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation … forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition.” –James Madison

“What, Sir, is the use of a militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty …. Whenever Governments mean to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins.”
- Rep. Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts

“Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe.”
- Noah Webster

“Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority … the Constitution was made to guard against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters.”
- Noah Webster

“The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops.”
- Noah Webster

 

[Hoosierdood]

Some words from our founders that explain exactly what is meant. A refresher if you will:

I just wish someone would come up with some good evidence to the Founders original intent.




Sorry bro, can't rep you again. It's too soon.

 

[jgreiner]

bear arms means to have. Not necessarily carry. Shall not be infringed is pretty clear cut though.

Keep means to have. I see bear as the right to CARRY them.

 

[beararms1776]

I think I would have better luck talking to a wall. You have been shown through an abundance of evidence that you are wrong. You have been directed to actual dictionary entries to show that your definition of "bear" is incorrect. You have been encouraged to dig deeper into the writings of our founders in order to understand what THEY meant by the word "bear". Multiple posters have exposed the flawed logic that you have used.

And yet, you still claim that all the facts that have been brought to light must be wrong, and that your own opinion trumps actual evidence. The willful ignorance that you have displayed is simply amazing. To have such an opinion of one's self that you are not willing to admit that you are wrong when clearly proven to be is indeed sad.

I still say that the reason that you are not willing to concede to the truth is that it would totally blow your entire argument out of the water, and you would have to admit that you were wrong, and that would just rock your boat too much.


IGNORANCE IS BLISS.

You have me totally wrong. I will and am not afraid to admit I'm wrong. This is just how I see the definitions of these words. Nothing more.
You have shown that anyone that sees them different than the way you see them, is ignorant and bliss. I'm no one to trump anything. There's nothing there that states, carry, march, walk, run, jog with the firearm. To carry them in public is a privilege granted by ISP. As much as I would like it to be a right to carry in public, it's not. As it stands now, it's a privilege.
I could be wrong. See, I just admitted it.
Regardless of how a person stereos, railroads, labels or whatever, we're all guilty of the charge, I'd still back your privilege and your right to bear arms in the home. When you start picking and choosing who you want to support on the basis of disagreements, coulds or simply because you don't like em, you'll end up with a smaller number than what you started and defeat your own purpose. That would be the definition of ignorance.

 

[youngda9]

There's nothing there that states, carry, march, walk, run, jog with the firearm.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dicti...1&t=1318440242
1: a : to move while holding up and supporting (something)

Therefore "bear arms" = ________

Can you fill in the blank beararms1776? <- OOOOH....the irony.

 

[youngda9]

And if you look up the definition of "Carry"

Carry - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
Definition of CARRY

transitive verb
1: to move while supporting (note the words "move" and "supporting" is also in the "bear" definition)

6: to transfer from one place (as a column) to another <carry a number in adding>

9a : to have or bear especially as a mark, attribute, or property <carry a scar> (note the word "bear" in the definition of "carry")

 

[Titanium_Frost]

You have me totally wrong. I will and am not afraid to admit I'm wrong. This is just how I see the definitions of these words. Nothing more.
You have shown that anyone that sees them different than the way you see them, is ignorant and bliss. I'm no one to trump anything. There's nothing there that states, carry, march, walk, run, jog with the firearm. To carry them in public is a privilege granted by ISP. As much as I would like it to be a right to carry in public, it's not. As it stands now, it's a privilege.
I could be wrong. See, I just admitted it.

Thats like saying Henry Ford built a 300hp Mustang in 1903 because thats what Ford offers now. It doesn't matter what we do today because the constitution has been willingly perverted through the years in interest of "personal safety" and "feeling safe".

Its original intention was Gov't would stay the hell out of our business and make it only try to run the damn country and foreign affairs. And that does not mean go bomb the hell out of whoever because they looked at us wrong.

 

[printcraft]

So "to keep and bear arms" means "to have and to have arms"?

I found a solution.....

 

[ATM]

...To carry them in public is a privilege granted by ISP. As much as I would like it to be a right to carry in public, it's not. As it stands now, it's a privilege...

Please do not attempt to define a right by the manner in which that right is currently infringed, restricted, ignored or denied.

The right itself is not granted, as simple privileges are.

It is a right whether you, I or anyone else recognize it.

It is a right protected by law, regardless of whether that protection is enforced or neglected.

By renaming this right a privilege, due to the nature of its current infringement, you help to condition the masses to regard it as such and no more.

It is an infringed right with various restrictions encroaching upon and strangling its original intent. Do not treat it as any less.

 

[chadc11]

Show me where it says I need a permit to bear arms in the dwelling.

Show me where it says in the Constitution that I need a license/permit to bear arms ANYWHERE. I have always found it interesting that the government has to give me their permission (license) and have me pay a fee to exercise my constitutional right.

Maybe reporters should have to pay a 1A fee to the government to get a "License to Speak Freely"......sounds ridiculous, but it's the exact same as charging a fee and forcing me to get a license to exercise my 2A rights.

 

[Hayseed_40]

Please do not attempt to define a right by the manner in which that right is currently infringed, restricted, ignored or denied.

The right itself is not granted, as simple privileges are.

It is a right whether you, I or anyone else recognize it.

It is a right protected by law, regardless of whether that protection is enforced or neglected.

By renaming this right a privilege, due to the nature of its current infringement, you help to condition the masses to regard it as such and no more.

It is an infringed right with various restrictions encroaching upon and strangling its original intent. Do not treat it as any less.

ATM, you must have read that somewhere else - it is spot on!

 

[Titanium_Frost]

ATM, you must have read that somewhere else - it is spot on!

Be careful there Hayseed, you are starting to agree with him quite a bit...

 

[Stschil]

ATM, you must have read that somewhere else - it is spot on!

You do him a great disservice, Sir!!!! (guantlet thrown)

Awww there is more to ATM that meets the eye.....Behind his unpolished, comedic exterior, There's brains behind the bacon!!!

 

[Regionnus Rattis]

You also have the right to bare arms...

 

[Hayseed_40]

Be careful there Hayseed, you are starting to agree with him quite a bit...

I atribute it to lack of sleep and other brain disorders.

 

[youngda9]

You also have the right to bare arms...

And don't forget the right to arm bears.

 

[Hoosierdood]

And don't forget the right to arm bears.

As long as they take their meds, I'm cool with it.