Convert Fireplace to Stove???

[photoshooter]

Hey Gang,

I live an typical subdivision with a stick built home on the outskirts of indy.

House is about 17 years old. Typical "pretty" fireplace - chimney housing is stick built (not brick) as well.

The inside hearth and trim around the fireplace is brick.

I'd like to investigate converting it over to a small stove for home heating.

What are the things I need to know before chatting with the sales reps at the fireplace store? Any dealers or "sweeps" on this board that I should spread some INGO love to rather than just running down the road to the closest dealer?

 

[Zoub]

Inserts are by far more efficient than firepalce, espeically with a heat exchanger/fans on one.

The big issue is proper fit and possibly having to line or insert a pipe in the existing flue. Read up on inserts and their installation, it is all out there on the web.

 

[jd4320t]

Might want to check with your homeowners insurance company. Also, if your thermostat is in that room you may want to move it since it will be really warm in there.

 

[snapping turtle]

Pellet stoves are not as messy as wood stoves. Wood stoves are cheaper if you have access to free wood or truck chainsaw and a few people with tree damage and such do to storms. If you got to buy wood the pellet stove is better. You have to buy pellets in the spring and summer when the demand is down and so are prices. If you want to go real old school and non green how about a coal stove. Coal is cheap.

Liners and fire retardant material is readily available at most stove fireplace shops.

Remember that even a small stove is going to make on end of the home hot and another coolier unless you have dual or triple heat zones. For most situations if it is a great room you would be well off with the small stove. For emergencies it would be near perfect.

 

[photoshooter]

Unfortunately, the fireplace is in the back corner of the home. I didn't purchase the home expecting to prep for SHTF scenarios...

Thermostat is at the other side of the home.

However, there is easy crawlspace access under that end of the house - and the crawlspace opens into the finished basement where the furnace room is located.

I'm debating running a cold-air return line through the crawl, and up next to the fireplace (it would be a floor vent) - that will help with general home heating. In power outages, we wouldn't have the elect to run the fans, but heat is heat at that point.

 

[grunt soldier]

i have been considering this exact thing. i live in the country and my house has a brick fire place and chimney, but mine has a ventless propane fire place in it right now. but i want to put one in for sure just for the same reason.

i was thinking i am just gonna run try to cut a hole through my flu and run the new exhuast pipe up and out the regular chimney. i am probably using some incorrect terms here but i am not sure it will work anyway but i think i am gonna try. wood is easy for me and i think if your planning for shtf a must cause it will be around and if you prep you can have enough for a while

 

[damdayshifter]

new idea

Have the "nail in" fireplace taken out and the hole in the roof closed and replaced with a vent free stove such as propane or a corn burning stove.

Check with your insurance company and all local building codes with permits.

AS FAR AS CHIMNEY SWEEPS THEY ALL CAN GO TO HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One chimney sweep company cost my company three thousand dollars in legal fees.

Homeowner had a flu fire sued us because the told the homeowner the flu was not built to code.
His codes were a code made-up by the chimney sweeps and not the local building codes.
The sweeps main purpose was to sell a stainless steel insert for the flu.
Because of one lawsuit the builder suppler now refuses to sell cider flu block or clay tile for fear of a lawsuit.
The chimney sweep was beat down in a court of law and was sent a letter and told never open his mouth again referring to building codes.


ALL HATE MAIL FROM CHIMNEY SWEEP WILL BE USE TO START FIRES IN MY FLU NOT TO THERE CODES........

 

[oldbikelvr]

You cannot install a stove in a factory built fireplace. You should go ahead and just have a wood stove installed in another area, or you could rip out the fireplace and install a wood stove there. Look for a reputable fireplace store, and make sure that they install to national standards. Some counties have no applicable codes, but you are always safe following national standards (NFPA 211). Remember, you are building a fire INSIDE your house. Also, you could talk to a certified chimney sweep, the above comment notwhithstanding, there are scammers in all industries. (Former Certified Chimney Sweep)

 

[antsi]

I've got a Jotul insert. It works well and heats our great room quite nicely. The room has a high ceiling and is like a cave without the stove burning. Nice and toasty with a fire, though.

If your hearth is big enough, you can just set a small wood stove inside the existing hearth. This is a nice arrangement and you can still set a pot of stew or water to heat on top of the stove. Have to have a fairly large fireplace to make this work though.

The inserts do require electricity for their built-in fans to circulate the air and heat the room properly. Also, you can't really cook or heat water on them. These would limit the utility in a SHTF situation but it does cut WAY down on how much we use our furnace in the Winter.

Also, as mentioned above, you will have to have a new flue insert run up inside your existing one. Most fireplaces are 8 or 10 inches diameter, and most stoves take 6 inch. If it's too big, it won't draw properly and tarry goo will build up in there, catch fire, and burn your house down.

 

[bft131]

Have the "nail in" fireplace taken out and the hole in the roof closed and replaced with a vent free stove such as propane or a corn burning stove.

Check with your insurance company and all local building codes with permits.

AS FAR AS CHIMNEY SWEEPS THEY ALL CAN GO TO HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One chimney sweep company cost my company three thousand dollars in legal fees.

Homeowner had a flu fire sued us because the told the homeowner the flu was not built to code.
His codes were a code made-up by the chimney sweeps and not the local building codes.
The sweeps main purpose was to sell a stainless steel insert for the flu.
Because of one lawsuit the builder suppler now refuses to sell cider flu block or clay tile for fear of a lawsuit.
The chimney sweep was beat down in a court of law and was sent a letter and told never open his mouth again referring to building codes.


ALL HATE MAIL FROM CHIMNEY SWEEP WILL BE USE TO START FIRES IN MY FLU NOT TO THERE CODES........

As far as quoting building codes my friend..I will refer the same to you..Many if not all "vent free" propane log sets installed into a "pre-fab" or factory built fireplace still require a flu of some kind, as do pellet or corn stoves.

Also, as a former certified chimney sweep and present day firefighter, do not lump all chimney sweeps into your hateful rant. I worked with my brother in law that runs a very succesful and honest sweep company in Indianapolis for the last 20 years and we regularly quoted NFPA 211 (This is a national building code standard, not one made up by chimney sweeps) on a regular basis because of the cheap and shoddy construction that we have seen in the building trades that have caused venting problems with our customers. Now, do I know of sweep companies out there that love to make several thousand dollars off of installing a stainless liner, yep...I have put quite a few in. All my installs were with documentation presented to both the homeowner and insurance company with no pressure. I didnt call or pester anyone to make my sale. Just like Joe Friday said, "Just the facts, ma'am"

Are Terra Cotta flue tiles outdated? Yes and no..Their fragility is questionable in our climate and a major reason for breakage is improper installation.

So in the end..Dont be a hater on all sweeps. Consult your local building codes, fire marshall or contact the CSIA (Chimney safety institute of America) located in Plainfield, Indiana.

 

[Arm America]

Inserts are by far more efficient than firepalce, espeically with a heat exchanger/fans on one.

Note Bold print above.

All inserts are not equal.

 

[Zoub]

Are Terra Cotta flue tiles outdated? Yes and no..Their fragility is questionable in our climate and a major reason for breakage is improper installation.

Hey, on this note, I have witnessed an absolute cluster **** with a friends home. Multi level, 3 fireplaces, real disaster he had to stop using al of them. I had my own issue some years back with a terra cotta flue.

What seems to make sense to me, is the fact a Stainless flue would be easy to maintain yourself, or should I say easier. I never really knew much about stainless flues until I reserached fitting our current fireplace with an insert.

It seems to me a stainless flue and solar power for the insert fan give you the best SHTF heat source that you can maintain yourself.

Am I wrong?

 

[oldbikelvr]

Hey, on this note, I have witnessed an absolute cluster **** with a friends home. Multi level, 3 fireplaces, real disaster he had to stop using al of them. I had my own issue some years back with a terra cotta flue.

What seems to make sense to me, is the fact a Stainless flue would be easy to maintain yourself, or should I say easier. I never really knew much about stainless flues until I reserached fitting our current fireplace with an insert.

It seems to me a stainless flue and solar power for the insert fan give you the best SHTF heat source that you can maintain yourself.

Am I wrong?

The best installation is a wood stove centrally located in the house. Any installation on an exterior wall will be less efficient. That said, an insert with a solar powered fan would be ok, but remember, you will want a good battery bank because you will be using it in winter/at night when the sun shines less. A soapstone stove or a masonry heater would give off heat after the fire has died out and radiates in a much more effective manner.

 

[Zoub]

The best installation is a wood stove centrally located in the house. Any installation on an exterior wall will be less efficient. That said, an insert with a solar powered fan would be ok, but remember, you will want a good battery bank because you will be using it in winter/at night when the sun shines less. A soapstone stove or a masonry heater would give off heat after the fire has died out and radiates in a much more effective manner.

Due to having a room behind the fireplace, our fireplace is more less centrally located. Battery bank is not a problem. I have considered adding thermal mass and soapstone but that is not cheap.

There is another aspect here, and that is recircultaing hot air from the ceiling and moving it to the back room at floor level. I have seen designs for low volume fans to do this as well. We have a cathedral ceiling, I hate them and there is plenty of $$/heat up there I want to grab.

Don't want to thread jack here but it all kind of goes together in a well thought out plan.

 

[Grizhicks]

We put a Pacific Energy insert in this past year, and one of the best things we've done to our house. No you can not cook on it, but it keeps the house toasty (too much so if I let it burn too hot). I went thru a fireplace shop in Noblesville, and was around $2,400 (but worth it). -- Greg

 

[oldbikelvr]

Due to having a room behind the fireplace, our fireplace is more less centrally located. Battery bank is not a problem. I have considered adding thermal mass and soapstone but that is not cheap.

There is another aspect here, and that is recircultaing hot air from the ceiling and moving it to the back room at floor level. I have seen designs for low volume fans to do this as well. We have a cathedral ceiling, I hate them and there is plenty of $$/heat up there I want to grab.

Don't want to thread jack here but it all kind of goes together in a well thought out plan.

Sounds like a ceiling fan is the way to go. It doesn't take much. Good luck with your project.

 

[IndyBeerman]

SNIP

There is another aspect here, and that is recircultaing hot air from the ceiling and moving it to the back room at floor level. I have seen designs for low volume fans to do this as well. We have a cathedral ceiling, I hate them and there is plenty of $$/heat up there I want to grab.

Don't want to thread jack here but it all kind of goes together in a well thought out plan.

I have a cathedral ceiling with a loft also, the best bet there is to install a large cold air return duct up there, so the hot air is recirculated throughout the house.

Best 250.00 I've ever spent, besides having a hybrid furnace put in.
The next item is a corn or wood pellet burning stove insert.

 

[woodsie57]

I bought an old woodstove for 100.00,replaced the blower and glass and gaskets, and put it in the fireplace opening, after putting 6" stovepipe up the chimney. You have to seal off the flue around the pipe, and you have to remove the damper from the chimney, but it has served us well for 3 -4 years. During a power failure, use a small inverter and deepcell battery to run the blower.

 

[Zoub]

I have a cathedral ceiling with a loft also, the best bet there is to install a large cold air return duct up there, so the hot air is recirculated throughout the house.

Best 250.00 I've ever spent, besides having a hybrid furnace put in.
The next item is a corn or wood pellet burning stove insert.

Yeah, I look up there and think WTH people, why is there no return up there? Good idea.

 

[damdayshifter]

THERE IS AN OD AND A ID ON TILE.

As far as quoting building codes my friend..I will refer the same to you..Many if not all "vent free" propane log sets installed into a "pre-fab" or factory built fireplace still require a flu of some kind, as do pellet or corn stoves.

Also, as a former certified chimney sweep and present day firefighter, do not lump all chimney sweeps into your hateful rant. I worked with my brother in law that runs a very succesful and honest sweep company in Indianapolis for the last 20 years and we regularly quoted NFPA 211 (This is a national building code standard, not one made up by chimney sweeps) on a regular basis because of the cheap and shoddy construction that we have seen in the building trades that have caused venting problems with our customers. Now, do I know of sweep companies out there that love to make several thousand dollars off of installing a stainless liner, yep...I have put quite a few in. All my installs were with documentation presented to both the homeowner and insurance company with no pressure. I didnt call or pester anyone to make my sale. Just like Joe Friday said, "Just the facts, ma'am"

Are Terra Cotta flue tiles outdated? Yes and no..Their fragility is questionable in our climate and a major reason for breakage is improper installation.

So in the end..Dont be a hater on all sweeps. Consult your local building codes, fire marshall or contact the CSIA (Chimney safety institute of America) located in Plainfield, Indiana.

Well,

Here is why I have had it with sweeps and their codes.
In a court of law a sweep said, "the cross-section of a 8 1/2 inch by 13 inch tile is 110.5 square inches and is to large for a 8 inch diameter stove pipe which led to the build up and the flu fire."
The actual working cross-sectional working area of a 8 1/2 inch by 13 inch is 76 square inches due to wall thickness and rounded corners.

This sweep had to admit on the stand to the judge his figures and applying the chimney sweep codes had mislead the homeowner.

We won the lawsuit... and didn't pay a dime to the homeowner or the sweep for the stainless liner.

But have had two more sweeps pull the same stunt on brand new homes.

Once is a fluke ... Twice is a trend .... Third time is over welling evidence.


DAMDAYSHIFTER