Could you have stopped the evil?

[rhino]

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

-- JFK, attributed to Edmund Burke by JFK, but no one really knows the real origin

 

[2A_Tom]

I personally hope that I would take action if I had the ability. I do not know what I would do.

The one time I was in a situation with shots fired, I took cover (for about 2 seconds) then I ran, unarmed, toward the gunfire (which had luckily stopped) because I had a friend in the open. When I got to him, I found that he had been hit in the leg. It was superficial but hurt a lot.

I would not expect anyone to leave cover or not exfiltrate.

 

[Coach]

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

-- JFK, attributed to Edmund Burke by JFK, but no one really knows the real origin

This

 

[nakinate]

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

-- JFK, attributed to Edmund Burke by JFK, but no one really knows the real origin

I can't agree enough. The only way I do "nothing" is if my family is with me. My priority is to get them out alive, and that may mean I don't engage. But, it may mean I do engage if the shooter is between us and safety. If my kids aren't there then I'm not sitting by while others die.

 

[actaeon277]

Just a question, does anyone with a family tell them that they need to stay away from you when the gun comes out?
If you're shooting at someone, there's a good chance there will be return fire.
Return fire that can miss, and hit someone nearby.

 

[nakinate]

Just a question, does anyone with a family tell them that they need to stay away from you when the gun comes out?
If you're shooting at someone, there's a good chance there will be return fire.
Return fire that can miss, and hit someone nearby.

I've thought about that and it seems prudent. Everything is so dependent up the circumstances of the situation it's hard to say what the exact right call is ahead of time. But, I'd tend to agree with your idea.

 

[BKahuna]

I understand.
And that's your right.

But, how would you feel if your family were in that situation without you, and killed.
Then they interview a guy or two that were there, and stated what you just said.
?

Camera monkey pretty much summed it up for me.

We can trade "what ifs" all night. It's impossible to consider all the variables in something like this.

The scenario was "at fifty yards, could you make the shot". With the weapons I choose to carry, and my own skill level taken into account, I know it's highly unlikely. I stated what I would do, and I stick by it.

 

[BKahuna]

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

-- JFK, attributed to Edmund Burke by JFK, but no one really knows the real origin

I don't consider saving my family, and surviving to raise my children, and provide for them "doing nothing"

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Just a question, does anyone with a family tell them that they need to stay away from you when the gun comes out?

Yes, and they are clear that if I tell them to exit they do so without questions and without me if I break off from them or hang back.

Do whatever lets you sleep at night.

 

[rhino]

I don't consider saving my family, and surviving to raise my children, and provide for them "doing nothing"

I neither said nor implied it was, nor did I address you directly. My comment was not directed at you.

For what it's worth, I thinking tending to one family should be the #1 priority, but the best way to do so will depend on the circumstances.

 

[rhino]

Just a question, does anyone with a family tell them that they need to stay away from you when the gun comes out?
If you're shooting at someone, there's a good chance there will be return fire.
Return fire that can miss, and hit someone nearby.

In fact, we recently had a discussion what she should do/expect if something bad happened at her side of the car. She knows that if I have to take action that involves firearms, I'm either going to be pinning her to the seat, or pushing her forward and down, as necessary, and she knows to not resist.

 

[Coach]

Just a question, does anyone with a family tell them that they need to stay away from you when the gun comes out?
If you're shooting at someone, there's a good chance there will be return fire.
Return fire that can miss, and hit someone nearby.

Kids doing what they are told is a big step in the right direction. Kids that do mot listen or behave will be much tougher to save. If time allows directions will be given. If time is very short I plan to make the first count. Ending the situation makes everyone safer.

If evacuation is not possible get between the threat and the family.

 

[Sylvain]

I'm either going to be pinning her to the seat, or pushing her forward and down, as necessary, and she knows to not resist.

Is it still about firearms? I like the idea.

I recommend using a safe word just in case.

 

[BKahuna]

I neither said nor implied it was, nor did I address you directly. My comment was not directed at you.

I'm sorry. I assumed it was.

For what it's worth, I thinking tending to one family should be the #1 priority, but the best way to do so will depend on the circumstances.

I agree. The exact circumstances will dictate the course of action.

 

[alabasterjar]

Just a question, does anyone with a family tell them that they need to stay away from you when the gun comes out?
If you're shooting at someone, there's a good chance there will be return fire.
Return fire that can miss, and hit someone nearby.

That's an excellent point that I don't believe has been discussed with my family during these types of discussions. Will add it to the pre-plan!

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Our range was open today so I gave this a go. 2 rounds from the 50y line with my Glock 17M and then with my Shield. I set my target, jogged back to the 50, then with a 2 second par time shot from the low ready twice. I'll see if I can post pics. Both rounds hit lower then I would have liked but would have probably been between the diaphragm and navel on a real target. The Shield I hit high in the shoulder and missed. More on that in a bit.

I repeated the same but with a B-8 repair center and no par time. Sort of a simulation of a head shot where the target is hunkered down and unaware of you. 10 ring and 9 ring hit with the Glock. Off paper with the Shield.

Now I expected to do worse with the Shield but did not expect to be that much worse, so I shot some closer targets. At 10y I'm about 2" high. About 4.5" high at 25y. No wonder I'm off a B-8 repair at 50y. I had Night Fision night sights installed on my Shield and apparently they've changed my POI quite a bit. I called the maker and they are to call me back early next week, but even with a "cover the dot" sight picture they hit quite high with 147gr 9mm.



Well, I guess I didn't take a pic of the first two. I really thought I had, but I must have hit the wrong button on the phone. At least I got the B-8.

 

[actaeon277]

That's an excellent point that I don't believe has been discussed with my family during these types of discussions. Will add it to the pre-plan!

There is a tendency to group around a "defender".
But that can be bad.
Bullets miss.
Also hamstrings the ability of the "defender" to shoot, or "get off the x".

 

[dudley0]

I had Night Fision night sights installed on my Shield and apparently they've changed my POI quite a bit. I called the maker and they are to call me back early next week, but even with a "cover the dot" sight picture they hit quite high with 147gr 9mm.

I can not believe that you had something done to a carry piece and then didn't test it before you carried.

On the other hand, congrats on hitting what you needed to with your 17. I feel pretty confident that I could not do that. Now if I could cartoon sneak up behind the guy...

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I can not believe that you had something done to a carry piece and then didn't test it before you carried.

I'd shot it at an indoor range and qualified on it at work. Nothing past 15y, though, and I had just figured it was me and not the gun.

 

[dudley0]

Well that makes more sense... carry on.

I have not gone any distance with the shield I have. Wife likes it but she has not shot it yet. Next time I am out I will see if I can stretch the distance with it and my FS carry.