Credit Card "Bill Of Rights" - Free Market Interference!

[leftsock]

Yes but should it be a government mandate on HOW they make money? Especially if the government is the top share holder?

I wouldn't think that the government would be in the "business" of making money. They really have no need for a profit; the shareholders are.. us!

 

[rambone]

I'm glad most of you guys see the point.

I'm glad most of you guys see the point. Don't be fooled thinking this kind of legislation is made to help you the consumer. That would be as silly as expecting the Economic Stimulus Package to stimulate the economy. Every single bill Obama has overseen fits his agenda: to Socialize our country; to have his Government control everything. Taking away one liberty at a time.

Everyone can have their own philosophy on credit cards. I use mine every day and pay it off every month. I've done this for years, never paying interest. My parents have done this for 30 years without paying any interest. Its not hard. And its had a lot of advantages as I've explained before.

It sucks I will lose the perks and convenience of using my card, once I am forced to pay for people who default. It sucks to watch the economy suffer, banks fail, government takeover, and wealth be distributed, all because of Comrade Obama.

Socialism and freedom are mutually exclusive philosophies.

 

[rambone]

Ever wonder where the "reward" money comes from? It's that 3% fee they tack on that the business pays to the CC companies for accepting you credit cards...

Well Kludge, I hope you choose to switch banks instead of support a crap bill like this. I don't think Chase Bank charges me to use a debit card, I have an ample grace period to pay, and I can say that the rewards program works because I have received several $250 checks so far. I'll have no complaints with them until the Government F's up their policy.

 

[SavageEagle]

Well Kludge, I hope you choose to switch banks instead of support a crap bill like this. I don't think Chase Bank charges me to use a debit card, I have an ample grace period to pay, and I can say that the rewards program works because I have received several $250 checks so far. I'll have no complaints with them until the Government F's up their policy.

I bank with Citizen's Bank Based in Mooresville and I've never been charged to use my debit card and the only place that has charged me for using my credit card has been the gas stations.... Walmart doesn't. I've checked my reciepts. I've not even seen a premium attached to my online "gun stuff" purchases either. How do I know how much they are charging to use the CC?

 

[kludge]

Well Kludge, I hope you choose to switch banks instead of support a crap bill like this. I don't think Chase Bank charges me to use a debit card, I have an ample grace period to pay, and I can say that the rewards program works because I have received several $250 checks so far. I'll have no complaints with them until the Government F's up their policy.

My CC is Chase. My debit card is Huntington.

My point on the rewards program is this: the CC company charges 3%, and gives you 1%. The retailer marks everything up 3% to cover the cost, and you get screwed out of 2%.

 

[kludge]

I bank with Citizen's Bank Based in Mooresville and I've never been charged to use my debit card and the only place that has charged me for using my credit card has been the gas stations.... Walmart doesn't. I've checked my reciepts. I've not even seen a premium attached to my online "gun stuff" purchases either. How do I know how much they are charging to use the CC?

It's not the retailer that charges the debit card fee, it's my bank (which is why up until just recently, maybe a year or two ago, WalMart only accepted debit cards, not credit cards) and it ends up in the "fee" on your (my) monthly statement.

 

[SavageEagle]

It's not the retailer that charges the debit card fee, it's my bank (which is why up until just recently, maybe a year or two ago, WalMart only accepted debit cards, not credit cards) and it ends up in the "fee" on your (my) monthly statement.

You should change banks. I NEVER get charged fees. IF we ever over draft the fee is $30 and we've only done that twice.

 

[dburkhead]

Some company, somewhere, is bound to offer a credit card that has no mandatory fees, and whoever that is will get my business, and those that require a fee will lose my business. Yes, I'm a credit card freeloader.

Perhaps the free market will prevail and credit card companies will realize that they get more customers if they don't require a mandatory fee to use their card? Eventually people will get tired of paying a fee to use their own money. (I hope.)

If you pay your bill in full every month you are not a freeloader. When you pay for something with a credit card a small portion of the transaction (somewhere on the order of 2%, IIRC--I don't deal with that part of our accounting system here) is kept by the credit card company. If you spend $500 ever month and pay it off also every month, that's $120 a year--or the equivalent of 24% interest annually if you just kept it continually at $500.

This is why they can afford to have "grace periods" with no finance charge. They make their money from the vendors--so long as the card holders pay their bills on time.

I haven't actually run the numbers, but looking at the interest rates (not counting "introductory" rates) of most of the cards I've seen, I suspect that "use and pay off every month" vs "run it up and then make minimum payments, and running it up again every time the balance drops" is pretty close to a wash financially for the card companies (high transaction fee volume with no interest vs. high interest with small transaction fee volume).

It's the folk just defaulting that run up the costs for everyone else. They're the "freeloaders."

 

[JosephR]

Those of you complaining because you are responsible with your cards and pay them off every month aren't going to be hurt by higher interest rates.

While this bill may do no good to you, OP, what is exactly so bad about it? How is it going to hurt me or anyone else posting here?

 

[rambone]

Let me explain.

Those of you complaining because you are responsible with your cards and pay them off every month aren't going to be hurt by higher interest rates.

While this bill may do no good to you, OP, what is exactly so bad about it? How is it going to hurt me or anyone else posting here?

Check out my original post. The reason it is bad, is because of the following:


1. Statistically the "high risk" people will default (don't pay) more often than people with good credit. In a free market, their interest rates are higher because there's a good chance the bank will never see that money again. Its business, you either make money or you close your doors.

2. The Government is going to force companies to give the "high risk" people the same rates as people with great credit.

3. The company will no longer be able to make up for the defaults from the people who are high risk, so everyone will have to pay for the ones going belly-up on their bills.

4. The company raises everyones rates, cuts rewards programs, makes you pay annual fees to use their card, and could even charge interest on every single purchase, regardless if you pay it off every month.


Remember, no one has to pay interest if you spend within your means (at least before this crap). But now the responsible people will be punished because of another great government legislation...

As I said it is intended to hurt banks & credit card companies, because lots of customers will leave because of the new fees. The only ones left will be the deadbeats. They will drive the company into the ground, and the Government will "give them a Bailout" with no vaseline. It is Obama's plan to Socialize America.

 

[JosephR]

Ok I see now. I was thinking this was screwing us right from the beginning. You just don't want to lose all of the benefits including rewards and miles etc.

 

[henktermaat]

you're right, they should let them set the interest rates how they want, over charge however much they want, take advantage of us, use OUR tax money to rebuild when THEY fail. Screw private banks and the Federal Reserve.

Now that's just stupid. Go peddle your textbook liberal regurgitation to your Obamabot drones.

Let me address your silly rant step-by-step:

1. Interest rates, left to a free market, will come down to what is reasonable. Any bank gouging will not stay in business. Go get a basic economics book and try to read it.
2. Overcharge: See the basic economics book again.
3. Taking advantage of us: people have free will and a choice (until your socialist messiah takes that away.) If you decide to support a bank who is taking advantage of you, you have no one to blame but yourself.
4. Using OUR tax money to rebuild when they fail: Come on- a government run amok is handing them that tax money. You most likely voted for this, by the sound of it.
5. Screw private banks... etc. More pointless drivel. Perhaps a sedative will assist you there.

 

[dburkhead]

Ok I see now. I was thinking this was screwing us right from the beginning. You just don't want to lose all of the benefits including rewards and miles etc.

No, it's that people don't want to be paying for other people's bad credit. As things stand, some companies won't accept credit cards because they don't like the returns differential between a cc payment and other payments. You don't see that much at the retail level, but I certainly see it in business to business transactions. The difference between what the card company pays to the seller and the actual recorded price is set by the card company. In addition, the contracts on with the card company generally forbid charging a higher price on credit vs. cash transactions.

With credit cards being used so much, sellers have to price their wares with the idea that they'll only get something like 97-98% of that price back. That means that the price of everything is slightly higher than it otherwise would be. This is a cost of credit that is often overlooked. These "rewards" are about the only way that the various financial institutions that issue Visa, MasterCard, and what have you can use to "compete" with each other. Chase Visa vs. Wells Fargo Visa vs. ATT Visa vs. whatever. The "rewards" essentially return part of the 2-3% that the credit costs. Eliminating them would have the effect of making credit more expensive.

Having to carry more "bad risks" means that it costs more to issue credit. That money has to come from somewhere. Traditionally, it has come from charging higher interest and fees to people who are at higher risk of defaulting or of slow payment (another cost to the credit provider). When laws both require issuing credit to higher risk borrowers and forbid charging interest commensurate with the risk the cost has to come from somewhere.

There are several ways that cost can be assessed:

- Increase interest for everyone. This can work provided that there isn't yet another limitation preventing those interest rates from being set where they need to be to cover the overall risk
- Increase the fee charged to businesses. This one can royally backfire if it leads to more businesses refusing to accept credit cards.
- Increase/implement regular fees for everyone (see "Increase interest for everyone")
- Reduce "payback" benefits (mileage bonuses, rewards programs, and the like). This one would probably be one of the first done as folk are likely to respond to complaints that they're complaining about "not getting something for nothing." That they weren't getting something for nothing, but were instead getting a "price break" on the cost of credit thought a "back door" in the system. The problem is, I don't think there is enough moneyto be found there to cover the cost.

All in all, this idea really looks like a bad idea.

 

[jedi]

If I may quote El Cazador from a different thread...


Quote:
Originally Posted by El Cazador
While I'm glad carry will be available in the National Park system again, they beat us again pretty smoothly. We won a small victory, they made short term credit less available to many, more expensive to almost all, and those with good credit and credit history are now going to finance those who default on their obligations. More theft from the responsible by the irresponsible. Wonderful.

In chess, they sacrificed a pawn to position their bishop for check. Somehow, we have to learn to play better chess.

The fact that we can carry a gun in a National Park is a footnote compared to the damage done to the banking system. And no, it doesn't please me that I'll just have to carry cash around all the time to avoid credit cards.

No sure where that thread is at but that thinking is still wrong. We don't need to learn to play better chess. We need to that there are NO RULES. If you ae losing in chess you could try ad form better strategies or just beat thec rap (literally) of your opponet and thus you win.

You see we keep thinking "inside" the box and we keep losing since the other side does not think logically.

 

[rambone]

No sure where that thread is at but that thinking is still wrong. We don't need to learn to play better chess. We need to that there are NO RULES. If you ae losing in chess you could try ad form better strategies or just beat thec rap (literally) of your opponet and thus you win.

You see we keep thinking "inside" the box and we keep losing since the other side does not think logically.

That thread was here, focusing on the "victory" of getting to carry in the national parks.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo.../36565-goa_-_on_the_verge_of_nps_victory.html

The point I liked was that a lot of Congressmen on our side took the bait, a mere pawn in terms of legislations. They tied two completely unrelated bills together, one being a tiny victory for gun owners, the other bill being a larger victory for Socialists.

 

[rambone]

Ok I see now. I was thinking this was screwing us right from the beginning. You just don't want to lose all of the benefits including rewards and miles etc.

I would still argue that we all will be screwed from the beginning. Socialism = Trickle Up Poverty. Its not just about losing my rewards and miles (although I am pissed about it).

Socialism has no chance of success, because it screws the winners, and makes it pointless to try and succeed. Socialism doesn't bring people out of poverty, it causes more people to enter poverty. Higher taxes, less jobs, less credit, crappy healthcare, etc... Forced on everyone. Socialism is a liberal's dream, but an American nightmare.

This isn't helping "the little guy" because instead of them getting lower rates, everyone is going to get higher rates. Hence, more people are hurt then helped.

 

[hornadylnl]

Joe,
Don't forget that part of the risk of default of the deadbeats is built into all of our interest rates. Same as stores raising the prices on all of their goods to offset what they are losing to the thieves.

 

[hornadylnl]

I just got a pre recorded call that showed blocked caller. It said I needed to hurry to lower my interest rate on my card to 6. something. I hung up. Aren't those calls scams?

 

[leftsock]

If you pay your bill in full every month you are not a freeloader.

True, true. I was trying to say that, from the credit card company's perspective, I'm not one of their "best customers," since they don't make any money off of me in interest or fees.

 

[hornadylnl]

True, true. I was trying to say that, from the credit card company's perspective, I'm not one of their "best customers," since they don't make any money off of me in interest or fees.

I'm fortunate to be in a position that I have some leverage with banks now. If they don't want to offer me a decent rate or service, they can write a check for all monies in that bank and go elsewhere.

I have a grandpa that wanted to borrow $4k from a bank he had dealt with for many years. He wanted the loan for 4 months with no monthly payments and he would pay it in full at the end of the 4 months. He was giving them a $20k CD as collateral for the loan. The guy had to call corporate to get it confirmed. I would have told the guy in front of me that he had 5 minutes to have a $4k check in my hand or he could write me a check for my entire balance of any money I had there and I would never be back.

My credit card has my banks name on it. I understand that it is probably a separate division from my actual bank but if they try tacking on fees or interest from point of use til my bill comes in the mail, I will tell them that they can drop those fees and interest charges and never try that crap again or I will close all my accounts and go elsewhere.