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CZ or Clones?
- Thread starter bjenkins
- Start date
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I would recommend you try the SAR B6P compact, if you can find one to handle. Polymer frame 3.8" barrel 13+1 9mm. It has a very nice trigger right out of the box although the DA pull is a bit long. If you like it they turn up at gun shows for around $310 and can be had on sites like gunbroker for about $25-35 less (of course shipping negates the price advantage). I actually aquired two because we dont get along with the Turks anymore and I wanted to be sure I could keep at least one running if parts became unavailable. Extra mags are VERY hard to come by.
I'm a fan of the clones and think that in some ways, they are an improved CZ. But, for what you are wanting to do, I'd go the CZ route. I think you can build a better pistol using CajunGunWorks parts if you start with a CZ than you can by going another route. The clones can get expensive quickly once you step away from the standard carry type guns. There are more interesting options available in some of the clones, such as 10mm, but CZ has the 9mm market covered very well with guns ranging from near pocket size to full size with many choices in between. My favorite 9mm carry gun is a CZ 75 Compact. For a full size 9mm, I prefer the standard CZ 75 or pre-B if you can find one. When I'm shooting for the sheer fun of shooting in 9mm, I'm shooting a full size CZ 75. Love my compact, but the full size is a sweeter shooting tool.
I have a few CZs. I tried the clones but they didn't catch on with me. A CZ sent to Cajun Gun Works is a gun that has realized its full potential. The clones only go part way.
CampingJosh
Master
- Dec 16, 2010
- 3,298
- 99
When I was making the same decision, I went with a full size CZ. I love it.
I'm sure that isn't much help, but count my vote for the original.
I'm sure that isn't much help, but count my vote for the original.
A few he says.
I have a couple of CZs also and have handled some clones. For the money and after market support I'd go real deal CZ
Go with the real CZ pistols. The clone guns do not have interchangeable parts, mags are different, etc. So they are not true clones. In fact their fire control systems are different, not just non-interchangeable parts but actually different.
I'm not saying that some of the near-clones are not good in their own right. I'm just saying that you will have much greater flexibility and compatibility if you stick with the actual CZ75 platform guns.
I'm not saying that some of the near-clones are not good in their own right. I'm just saying that you will have much greater flexibility and compatibility if you stick with the actual CZ75 platform guns.
The Caniks, s-120, l-120, shark, etc. Accept CZ 75 magazines, along with some internals if you fit them in. The Sarsilmaz b6-p and the k2-p also accept cz 75 b mags, and the slides are interchangeable between k2 and b6. Though I don't know if CZ internals fit or not.
As far as choice, It depends on what your looking for really. For most CZ will probably be the way to go but the Caniks/Tristars offer tremendous value IMO, for those looking to upgrade. The Sars are a good value for those wanting a basic CZ design without a lot of money spent, and not worrying about upgrades. I can't speak much on the witnesses though.
As far as choice, It depends on what your looking for really. For most CZ will probably be the way to go but the Caniks/Tristars offer tremendous value IMO, for those looking to upgrade. The Sars are a good value for those wanting a basic CZ design without a lot of money spent, and not worrying about upgrades. I can't speak much on the witnesses though.
Depends on what you mean by "clone".
Low-cost knock-off? SOME of them can be decent pistols.
Some of the all metal Tanfolio (or is it Tangfolio?) / Witness pistols are quite high quality.
Also, a Sphinx System pistol would be QUITE desireable. Sphinx Systems - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (Their older guns, the "3000" series, I think, are the Bees Knees. I don't know about the newest ones)
Low-cost knock-off? SOME of them can be decent pistols.
Some of the all metal Tanfolio (or is it Tangfolio?) / Witness pistols are quite high quality.
Also, a Sphinx System pistol would be QUITE desireable. Sphinx Systems - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (Their older guns, the "3000" series, I think, are the Bees Knees. I don't know about the newest ones)
How about, at a very minimum, interchangeable parts and copies of the operating systems?
AR15 pattern guns are great examples of 'clone' guns. Take any receiver from one brand and you can fit any fire control group from another gun and you can fit any top from yet another gun.
Look to Browning HP and the clones spawned from that design. Same thing. Fire control assembly from a Charles Daly will fit into a pre-war Belgian made.
1911 pistols are again great examples. Slide from a Kimber and trigger/sear/mainspring from an Ed Brown will easily swap into a Colt.
But that is not what happens with the so-called CZ clones. While SOME parts may interchange between SOME guns, all parts don't. So what you get is sort of like the old Pontiac Fiero econo-sports car when you bolt the fiberglass "Ferrari" body panel kit onto the car. You get a car that looks like a Ferrari but really isn't a Ferrari. Can't take the engine internals and swap them from Detroit's Fiero with their Italian cousins. Tanfoglio guns are very good guns in their own right, nobody is going to fault them, but they are not CZ clones. Ditto the AT24. Ditto the Spinx. Etc Etc Etc.
A "look alike" is not a clone.
A functionally identical gun, with interchangeable parts is a real clone.
Anyone who wants to modify their gun in the future would be best served by buying a CZ because the competition aftermarket parts exist in spades for the CZ pistols. Some people will modify and race tune some of the other brands, but the CZ has become the leader in having aftermarket tuners, parts, etc.
Not trying to be nit-picky. Just trying to point out some facts.
Those are the three guns that fill out my collection too. I love 1911s and CZs as well as the simple practicality of the Glock. All of them play nice together in the collection. Some other advantages to the original CZ are a higher availability of sight options, more holster options and a higher resale value if you ever want to sell it. There are a lot of good options out there in the clone market if you are wanting an unmodified carry gun but the fun with CZs come in as you tune them. I've owned clones from Tanfoglio, EAA and Sarsilmaz (Armalite) and while each have been good guns, they've all shared the inability to install night sights. The Tanfoglio pistols have front sights milled into the slide and it will take a trip to a good gunsmith plus money to add night sights. The Sar built Armalite has dovetailed sights, but Armalite customer service had no idea what the specs for those are.
The only real downside to CZs is that it's tough to find the CZs that I want most. A steel CZ Compact in 40 is a tough one to find. I also wish they would make a compact in stainless. Or, a standard full size CZ in 10mm. Or, how about a full size .45 that can be comfortably shot by people with normal sized hands.
I totally get it! Which is why I posed the initial question.
I know you're one of the board's Go-To experts on CZ pistols...and THE GUY for Detonics.
Thanks for adding the clarification to the thread. It's appreciated.
I certainly don't want to start arguements over ths topic, but if someone buys a "near-clone" of a CZ and thinks they can swap parts they are mistaken. For many enthusiasts who want to see their guns evolve over time with modifications this is a real issue. I am NOT saying there is anything wrong with the near-clone brands, some may be better than others, but all are probably more than adequate pistols. That said, I know of none that are actually clone guns. Perhaps some are true-clone guns?
I guess my point is that the term "CZ clone" is very misleading. I'd prefer that people say these various brands are "CZ inspired" or "CZ near-clones" or perhaps "CZ look-alikes" but they are not, in the operating sense, actually CZ-clones.
I do NOT hold myself up as a CZ expert, I have a bunch of them, I love them, while my carry guns are 1911 pattern pistols, my house/nightstand guns are all CZ. Controls are identical between the 1911 and the CZ. Both can be carried "cocked & locked" so the transition is easy between the two guns. Lots of CZ fans are also 1911 fans ... and visa versa.
I love 1911s but there is just something about doing a mag dump with a CZ that's fully tuned and has a short reset trigger. It makes the knees weak. 
Get the real CZ. As said, the clones aren't.
