Damaged Omega from a range....

[churchmouse]

The can being launched downrange is most likely the fault of the owner.

Not allowing the can to be immediately retrieved, and the subsequent damaged caused by dumbass range patrons shooting at it, is the fault of the range (employees, management, and ownership).

These aren't mutually exclusive errors, nor are they the same level of head-slapping disbelief.

Launching the can doesn't necessarily damage it, but the range not IMMEDIATELY calling a ceasefire and allowing the owner to retrieve the item before their customers take potshots at it is willful malfeasance devoid of any and all common sense and completely worthy of scorn, in my humble non-barrister opinion. This would be true if it were a can, or a chronograph, or whatever.

I am still trying to wrap my head around the numbskulls on the line shooting towards the floor at personal property. That just twists my head up.
Now, as you say, if the range had gone cold said numbskulls would not have had the opportunity to act childish and destroy the mans can.
Very glad I was not on the line when this transpired. It is very difficult to argue with stupid. They have limitless amounts of ammo for such fights.

That this went Viral is the world we live in. People need to realize that what you post never goes away. Firearm related incidents are prime targets.
No Pun intended.

 

[T.Lex]

No explanation on how the suppressor got down range.

This joke is getting old.

Am I the only one here that thinks the owner has some liability if the initial error was his? If it was never sent down range the problem would have never been a problem. I guess I'm a dinosaur but I think when I touch something I have some responsibility for the outcome. If someone else in the chain of events makes a bigger mistake than mine does that absolve me of any responsibility?

The victim mindset dilutes the human potential. By not accepting personal responsibility for our circumstances, we greatly reduce our power to change them.
Steve Maraboli

I'm done.

This belongs in a different thread?

 

[jagee]

I screwed up, drove like an idiot and got a flat tire on my car. As luck would have it, I'm right out front of a tire shop. I ask them to fix it for me. They are busy right now and will get to it eventually. Fine. I leave.
Apparently, while I was gone, they let other customers and/or employees drive my car around on a flat tire further damaging the rim and who knows what else, I'm not a mechanic.
If I wouldn't have driven like an idiot, my car never would have been left at that shop, but here we are.

Tire damage = my fault
Rim & additional damage = shops fault



Am I off base here with my hypothetical scenario?

 

[Trigger Time]

My views,
the guy made huge mistakes which he will now pay for with lost time using his suppressor. Not securing it properly (however it is a crappy mounting system). And then actually leaving without his NFA item. The guy must be some kind of saint because I would have went down the line asking for a ceasefire and walked down and got my can and never went back to that place. They would have had to physically remove me before I would have left without any NFA item.
The range broke the law or at a minimum atf rules as soon as they let that customer walk out the door without the serial number and his info being recorded into their NFA book and could still possibly face an atf audit or penalties because of it. Who knows.
The range could have also prevented anything from going national or even here on ingo if they would have done the right thing from the beginning. 1. Call the range cold to retrieve item FAIL, 2. Make it right with the customer once the item was found damaged due to THE RANGE leaving it downrange, FAIL. So I don't feel bad for anyone in this story. **** happens.
Will I go back to parabellum after this story? Nope.
The owner himself wasn't willing to make it right. Coach on ingo has whatever pull and is the one who had enough pull to fix this. But the owner didn't at first. not cool.
will they miss my money? Nope. But i imagine many others won't visit again either.

 

[DanVoils]

My views,
the guy made huge mistakes which he will now pay for with lost time using his suppressor. Not securing it properly (however it is a crappy mounting system). And then actually leaving without his NFA item. The guy must be some kind of saint because I would have went down the line asking for a ceasefire and walked down and got my can and never went back to that place. They would have had to physically remove me before I would have left without any NFA item.
The range broke the law or at a minimum atf rules as soon as they let that customer walk out the door without the serial number and his info being recorded into their NFA book and could still possibly face an atf audit or penalties because of it. Who knows.
The range could have also prevented anything from going national or even here on ingo if they would have done the right thing from the beginning. 1. Call the range cold to retrieve item FAIL, 2. Make it right with the customer once the item was found damaged due to THE RANGE leaving it downrange, FAIL. So I don't feel bad for anyone in this story. **** happens.
Will I go back to parabellum after this story? Nope.
The owner himself wasn't willing to make it right. Coach on ingo has whatever pull and is the one who had enough pull to fix this. But the owner didn't at first. not cool.
will they miss my money? Nope. But i imagine many others won't visit again either.

^^^^^^
This!

The owner was pretty much blowing him off until Coach intervened. (My understanding is that Coach is the online representative for Parabellum on INGO.) I've been following this on Redit, where it started, and on a couple of other forums as well as on Facebook. The conclusions and analogies are pretty much the same across the board.
1. The can was launched due to either a failure of the mounting system (a known fact that it is a faulty system) or the shooter failed to lock it in place. Due to the damage it couldn't be checked to see what failed.
2. The RSO should have called a cease fire and retrieved the can.
3. The onsite management failed to called a cease fire so the RSO could retrieve the can.
4. The onsite management said they would retrieve the can after they closed and he could pick it up the next morning. (This is in violation of NFA rules and regs.)
5. The shooter should not have left the facility without the can.
6 Once picked up the onsite management and owner (via email) refused to fully cover the repair/replacement costs.
7. Coach intervened and persuaded the owner to do the right thing.
8. Now it's a matter of waiting on the BATFE to approve the new stamp.

That's pretty much everything as far as the opinions and facts I've gathered. I only go to Parabellum when it's too cold outside to shoot. I'm not sure if I'll go again this fall/winter. I'll have to wait and see.

 

[OneBadV8]

Owner at Parabellum covered all the costs and still had his reputation sullied up by this mess on several other boards.. No good deed goes unpunished..

Thread was ONLY posted after owner refused to cover more than HALF of the stamp cost ($100) to the ATF.

Suppressor owner tried to have it settled face to face.

 

[shootersix]

ok I ask this of ingo, because this is exactly how I would have handled the situation , once the range offices had refused to call a cease fire, I would have gone to everyone shooting on the line and asked them to stop shooting, not knowing the range and how busy it was, but how many people could it be? and then I'd have ducked (or hopped) the shooting line, and picked it up walked back and popped over the line, thanked every one for letting me get my can.

as a reasonable person, I would have stopped shooting and let the owner pick up his can, why?....because I'm not an A**H***! (but then again I'll stop in the middle of the road, and pick up a turtle and move it to the other side of the road and put it in the grass)

i'm not defending the range by any means, the employee messed up big time! and the range messed up by not addressing the fact till after the incident went "viral" but they have stepped up, and are fixing the issue, but as a person, knowing the cost of a suppressor, I (if I had been an employee of the range) wouldn't have even questioned calling a cease fire, why...like I said above "I'm not an a**h***"

 

[DanVoils]

ok I ask this of ingo, because this is exactly how I would have handled the situation , once the range offices had refused to call a cease fire, I would have gone to everyone shooting on the line and asked them to stop shooting, not knowing the range and how busy it was, but how many people could it be? and then I'd have ducked (or hopped) the shooting line, and picked it up walked back and popped over the line, thanked every one for letting me get my can.

as a reasonable person, I would have stopped shooting and let the owner pick up his can, why?....because I'm not an A**H***! (but then again I'll stop in the middle of the road, and pick up a turtle and move it to the other side of the road and put it in the grass)

i'm not defending the range by any means, the employee messed up big time! and the range messed up by not addressing the fact till after the incident went "viral" but they have stepped up, and are fixing the issue, but as a person, knowing the cost of a suppressor, I (if I had been an employee of the range) wouldn't have even questioned calling a cease fire, why...like I said above "I'm not an a**h***"

And that's the problem. Too many people are a**h***s and have zero common sense. Even if the employee didn't know the value of the can he still should have called a cease fire and retrieved it.
But what's done is done and hopefully people learned something.

 

[NHT3]

I am still trying to wrap my head around the numbskulls on the line shooting towards the floor at personal property. That just twists my head up.
Now, as you say, if the range had gone cold said numbskulls would not have had the opportunity to act childish and destroy the mans can.
Very glad I was not on the line when this transpired. It is very difficult to argue with stupid. They have limitless amounts of ammo for such fights.

That this went Viral is the world we live in. People need to realize that what you post never goes away. Firearm related incidents are prime targets.
No Pun intended.

Not hard to wrap CM.. ANY "active" target down range is shot at.. Nothing right about it but I've seen it happen too often. No shortage of idiots when it comes to something like that. If it's downrange, it's fair game. It doesn't matter if it's a shotgun shell or a piece of paper big enough to see at 25 yards. If it will react to a bullet someone will shoot at it.

 

[THE BIG SITT]

My views,
the guy made huge mistakes which he will now pay for with lost time using his suppressor. Not securing it properly (however it is a crappy mounting system). And then actually leaving without his NFA item. The guy must be some kind of saint because I would have went down the line asking for a ceasefire and walked down and got my can and never went back to that place. They would have had to physically remove me before I would have left without any NFA item.
The range broke the law or at a minimum atf rules as soon as they let that customer walk out the door without the serial number and his info being recorded into their NFA book and could still possibly face an atf audit or penalties because of it. Who knows.
The range could have also prevented anything from going national or even here on ingo if they would have done the right thing from the beginning. 1. Call the range cold to retrieve item FAIL, 2. Make it right with the customer once the item was found damaged due to THE RANGE leaving it downrange, FAIL. So I don't feel bad for anyone in this story. **** happens.
Will I go back to parabellum after this story? Nope.
The owner himself wasn't willing to make it right. Coach on ingo has whatever pull and is the one who had enough pull to fix this. But the owner didn't at first. not cool.
will they miss my money? Nope. But i imagine many others won't visit again either.

Exactly. The owner only made things right once he either (a) realized the backlash that he was facing through social media, (b) was persuaded by Coach, (c) all of the above. Had none of this happened, I guarantee the guy would still be screwed out of time and money, instead of just time. He thought he could take the easy way out, safe some money, and never have to face the consequences. Well I'll play it safe and shoot at Point Blank, because I'm sure there uptight ROs would have call a cease fire immediately. Point Blank is cheaper anyways...

 

[tbhausen]

I am sitting here gritting my teeth so as not to type how I would have dealt with that mess.

Once told "NO" I would have gotten the line shut down myself......retrieved my property and left never to return.
That is the PC side.....the language used and gestures shared is another story all together.

You took the words right out of my mouth. This is exactly how I would've handled the situation.

 

[cbhausen]

Negan? Is that you?

 

[tbhausen]

Also, I wouldn't have bothered going up and down the line asking for a cease-fire. That's not how it works. Call one, wait for the RSO's to make sure the line is clear, and go out and get your property. Easy!

 

[IndyDave1776]

Also, I wouldn't have bothered going up and down the line asking for a cease-fire. That's not how it works. Call one, wait for the RSO's to make sure the line is clear, and go out and get your property. Easy!

As I see it, so far as I read in the thread, no one thought of the call I would have made. When the staff refused to call a cease fire, I would have drawn down on them with the phone and told them that either they call a cease fire or I call the ATF. Immediately.

 

[ljk]

I call the ATF. Immediately.

Call ATF for what?

Have you even called ATF before? I did, both NFA and ATF Indy field offices, they don't care.

 

[Leadeye]

Being told to pick up an NFA item the next day after asking for a cease fire would be an unacceptable response. Step across the firing line and force the ceasefire, retrieve your personal property that you are responsible for.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Call ATF for what?

Have you even called ATF before? I did, both NFA and ATF Indy field offices, they don't care.

Not over an NFA issue, but they were able to help with my need at the time.

 

[actaeon277]

Not over an NFA issue, but they were able to help with my need at the time.

Dude.
What happens behind closed doors, should stay behind closed doors.

 

[ljk]

Not over an NFA issue, but they were able to help with my need at the time.

I had an NFA issue: bought a suppressor off the dealer shelf, not form 3. 1 month after form 4 was approved, was told stamp never showed up. Another month passed, with certified copy in my hands, was told by dealer's employee no suppressor can be found.

Called NFA branch, was told they only process forms. Enforcement is handled by the local field office. Got the number, only had voicemail. Left multiple msg, Got a call back 3 days later, took my info and brief rundown of the situation. That was the last time I was ever in contact with them.

It was eventually resolved later between myself and the dealer, but neither NFA or ATF helped one bit.

 

[sheepdog697]

that is ridiculous. Hope they cover everything