DD illegal now?

[printcraft]

......
Perfect. Thank you. Seems to me, since we have the word "and" in there, we can have a pistol grip firearm with less than 18" barrel, as long as it is 26"

Ummmm, I wouldn't be signing up to be the test case on that one.

Your barrel better be 18" from the breach face and no configuration shorter than 26" overall.
If you have a receiver 7" with a 18" barrel attached you would be in violation of the 26" rule by an inch.
You would need a barrel at least 19" to be in compliance.

 

[ssgjason]

Ummmm, I wouldn't be signing up to be the test case on that one.

Your barrel better be 18" from the breach face and no configuration shorter than 26" overall.
If you have a receiver 7" with a 18" barrel attached you would be in violation of the 26" rule by an inch.
You would need a barrel at least 19" to be in compliance.

I will admit I do not know 100% what I am talking about but please do not promote opinions as fact. The pistol grip is included in overall length.

The ATF has already determined per two letters that the you can have (with certain limitations) a pistol gripped firearm (I would say shotgun but it does not meet the federal definition of shotgun) with less than an 18" barrel and greater than 26" overall length and it not be a title II firearm and is in fact a title 1. I am trying to determine IN law on this and would like to have those people who actually know versus average Joe's interpretation of the law and the ATF fear mongering that happens here.

 

[koveras225]

I will admit I do not know 100% what I am talking about but please do not promote opinions as fact. The pistol grip is included in overall length.

The ATF has already determined per two letters that the you can have (with certain limitations) a pistol gripped firearm (I would say shotgun but it does not meet the federal definition of shotgun) with less than and 18" barrel and greater than 26" overall length and it not be a title II firearm and is in fact a title 1. I am trying to determine IN law on this and would like to have those people who actually know versus average Joe's interpretation of the law and the ATF fear mongering that happens here.

Since that decision is based heavily on the definition of a 'shotgun' per the NFA and GCA, and Indiana uses that exact same definition, it *should* be legal. Being that it's a recent development though, I wouldn't want to be the one testing it until something official comes down from the state level.

 

[ssgjason]

Since that decision is based heavily on the definition of a 'shotgun' per the NFA and GCA, and Indiana uses that exact same definition, it *should* be legal. Being that it's a recent development though, I wouldn't want to be the one testing it until something official comes down from the state level.

I agree in that respect. But the discussion has to start somewhere and what better place than here?

This is what I want

 

[smitty12b]

http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr251/smitty12b/029.jpg

This is 29" from barrel to grip. After reading the above posts I am still unclear if I can remove 3" from the barrel.

 

[koveras225]

http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr251/smitty12b/029.jpg

This is 29" from barrel to grip. After reading the above posts I am still unclear if I can remove 3" from the barrel.

The ATF says you can and it *may* be legal under Indiana law. That said, I would not recommend doing so unless you can get some written confirmation from the ISP that doing so would be legal. Even then I would wait until the current situation settles a bit.

 

[smitty12b]

I just sent the ISP an e-mail

" if I have a shotgun with a pistol grip and 18" barrel that has an overall length of 29" can I cut down the barrel to 15 1/2"? This will give the shotgun a total length of 26 1/2" which as I understand is the mandatory minimum length "

I will post the response as soon as I get one.

 

[printcraft]

.......... I am trying to determine IN law on this and would like to have those people who actually know versus average Joe's interpretation of the law and the ATF fear mongering that happens here.

Hummm, well I'll just STFU then.
I would go on to say you should not be asking the question where
an "average joes interpretation of the law" would even come into play.

Go ask the ATF directly, see if you can get a straight answer.

If not I would suggest more power to you, just go ahead with that
shorter than 18" barreled shotgun and let the chips fall where they may.

I agree in that respect. But the discussion has to start somewhere and what better place than here?

Not a good place for this discussion as average joe's might answer your questions and we can't have that kind of crap go on around here.

 

[ssgjason]

Hummm, well I'll just STFU then.

Do as you please. If you recognize that you are unable to answer the question with a knowledge based answer, then I would certainly say you are a smart man.

Go ask the ATF directly, see if you can get a straight answer.

As I stated in my posts, the ATF has ruled on the situation at hand, but state laws vary and I was asking for the input of those who know how to interpret and/or have a working knowledge of IN state laws.

If not I would suggest more power to you, just go ahead with that
shorter than 18" barreled shotgun and let the chips fall where they may.
.

If those in the know determine that I can, I will.

Not a good place for this discussion as average joe's might answer your questions and we can't have that kind of crap go on around here.

Unfortunately, those who don't know actual answers still have to state their two cents.

If you would like to discuss this further, please feel free to IM as I would rather not derail a fine thread on what may be an exciting new product available to the masses.

 

[IndianaGTI]

What they said. A sawed off shotgun is shoots a shotgun shell and was designed to be fired from the shoulder in Indiana.

A serbu is not a shotgun by Indiana's definition.

You must comply with both Indiana law and Federal law.

I was at the range the other day and some guy had one of those GSG-22 pistols that is a copy of an MP-5 with a short barrel. He bought a collapsible stock for it and was getting ready to install it. He said he asked the Sheriff in a neighboring county and the Sheriff said it was OK. I showed him the definition of SBR.

The government really needs to make the laws clearer and that Sheriff needs to say that he doesn't know instead of giving bad advice.

 

[VUPDblue]

I have seen the BATFE letters that say that a shotgun with barrels less than 18" but OAL of at least 26" is not a "shotgun" and not an AOW. It appears that Indiana's definition would support that status as well.

IC 35-47-1-10
"Sawed-off shotgun"
Sec. 10. "Sawed-off shotgun" means:
(1) a shotgun having one (1) or more barrels less than eighteen
(18) inches in length; and
(2) any weapon made from a shotgun (whether by alteration,
modification, or otherwise) if the weapon as modified has an
overall length of less than twenty-six (26) inches.
As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32.

 

[printcraft]

Unfortunately, those who don't know actual answers still have to state their two cents.

I know right?! That kind of behavior really upsets me too!

The nerve of those people to actually attempt to help someone out on an gun website.

I wish people would just mind their business and leave these discussions up to the true Tier 1 operators.

 

[smitty12b]

I know right?! That kind of behavior really upsets me too!

The nerve of those people to actually attempt to help someone out on an gun website.

I wish people would just mind their business and leave these discussions up to the true Tier 1 operators.

The bastards, they should be forced to wear a man thong in public

 

[smitty12b]

I just sent the ISP an e-mail

" if I have a shotgun with a pistol grip and 18" barrel that has an overall length of 29" can I cut down the barrel to 15 1/2"? This will give the shotgun a total length of 26 1/2" which as I understand is the mandatory minimum length "

I will post the response as soon as I get one.

This is the response I received from ISP

IC 35-47-1-10
"Sawed-off shotgun"
Sec. 10. "Sawed-off shotgun" means:
(1) a shotgun having one (1) or more barrels less than eighteen (18) inches in length; and
(2) any weapon made from a shotgun (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if the weapon as modified has an overall length of less than twenty-six (26) inches.
As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32.
Followthe link below for more frequently asked questions.
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Mark S.(Butch) Michael, Sergeant
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Indiana State Police [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Firearms Section/Rm302[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]100 N. Senate Ave.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Indianapolis, In. 46204[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Office: 317-232-8269[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Fax: 317-233-9730[/FONT]

[FONT=Calibri, sans-serif]See the Firearms Section's FAQ page for more info on Indiana handgun laws at: [FONT=Calibri, sans-serif]http://www.in.gov/isp/2788.htm[/FONT][FONT=Calibri, sans-serif] .[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri, sans-serif]
If this is in violation of the copy rules then please delete.

[/FONT]
[/FONT]

 

[jedi]

This is the response I received from ISP

IC 35-47-1-10
"Sawed-off shotgun"
Sec. 10. "Sawed-off shotgun" means:
(1) a shotgun having one (1) or more barrels less than eighteen (18) inches in length; and
(2) any weapon made from a shotgun (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if the weapon as modified has an overall length of less than twenty-six (26) inches.
As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32.
Followthe link below for more frequently asked questions.
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Mark S.(Butch) Michael, Sergeant
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Indiana State Police [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Firearms Section/Rm302[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]100 N. Senate Ave.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Indianapolis, In. 46204[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Office: 317-232-8269[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Fax: 317-233-9730[/FONT]

[FONT=Calibri, sans-serif]See the Firearms Section's FAQ page for more info on Indiana handgun laws at: [FONT=Calibri, sans-serif]http://www.in.gov/isp/2788.htm[/FONT][FONT=Calibri, sans-serif] .[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Calibri, sans-serif]If this is in violation of the copy rules then please delete.[/FONT]


[/FONT]

Hum... seems to me to be a SBS in IN you have to meet BOTH requirememts based on that AND in red above.

But I have no clue.

 

[CountryBoy19]

I have seen the BATFE letters that say that a shotgun with barrels less than 18" but OAL of at least 26" is not a "shotgun" and not an AOW. It appears that Indiana's definition would support that status as well.

If it's not a shotgun or AOW then what is it? Would it fall outside of the "sporting purposes" clause then because it's bore is larger than .500"? Or is that clause universal for any smooth-bore?

Hum... seems to me to be a SBS in IN you have to meet BOTH requirememts based on that AND in red above.

But I have no clue.

I think I see where this is going... it appears to me that if you have (or you desire to have) a federally registered SBS with a barrel less than 18", but OAL is still greater than 26" it is legal in IN because it does not fit the definition of a "Sawed-off shotgun". Is that how I'm reading this?

 

[jedi]

I think I see where this is going... it appears to me that if you have (or you desire to have) a federally registered SBS with a barrel less than 18", but OAL is still greater than 26" it is legal in IN because it does not fit the definition of a "Sawed-off shotgun". Is that how I'm reading this?

That is my understanding of the text but I don't own any items that require a stamp so no clue. But looking at the was the IC is written it has an AND not an OR which means if order for it to be a "sawed off shotgun" per Indiana definition BOTH requirements 1 AND 2 must be met and in the case that is being talking about one of those requirements is not being met so per Indiana definition it's not a "sawed off shotgun".

You are correct that the federal portion would still apply. (ie. having to get a stamp, the paperwork, etc..)

At least that is how I am reading the IC with the AND in it but I'm no ATTY or have any experience in this stuff.

 

[.356luger]

now please let me interupt this thread if you guys dont mind. if i have a shotgun thats barrel is 24" long, can i put it on the bandsaw and cut it down to 20"?

Yes you can cut it down as far as 18 inches just no further i keep mine at 19 so there is no question on the length.

 

[CountryBoy19]

Yes you can cut it down as far as 18 inches just no further i keep mine at 19 so there is no question on the length.

Maybe you should read the whole thread before you reply ... the level of discussion is much deeper than that now...

 

[VUPDblue]

If it's not a shotgun or AOW then what is it? Would it fall outside of the "sporting purposes" clause then because it's bore is larger than .500"? Or is that clause universal for any smooth-bore?



I think I see where this is going... it appears to me that if you have (or you desire to have) a federally registered SBS with a barrel less than 18", but OAL is still greater than 26" it is legal in IN because it does not fit the definition of a "Sawed-off shotgun". Is that how I'm reading this?

The letter I read (IIRC) says that a firearm like we are describing (12ga, 14.5" barrel, 26.5" OAL, PG-only) is not a firearm at all by definition as it doesn't fall into a proscribed category. The Indiana statute, as well as the Federal one, describe a SBS as having barrels less than 18" AND an OAL of less than 26". If your barrel is 14.5" but the OAL is still greater than 26" it doesn't meet the definition of SBS because it doesn't have both short barrels AND short OAL.