Death Penalty

[rvb]

It's not a matter of me wanting innocent people being put to death, it is a matter of violent criminals being taken out before they can get out and hurt a truly innocent person once again.

There are to many murders, rapists, child molesters getting out and perpetrating these crimes again.

The fact that violent offenders often repeat the offenses is a real problem. We have a "revolving door" system, mainly due to overcrowding from more minor offenses (eg "posession"). So do we solve overcrowding and early-release standards by killing them all? Can't we prevent repeat offenders from hurting again through longer sentences and by making them fulfill their entire sentences and better prioritization of jail space?

-rvb

 

[rambone]

Even when the state manages to convict the correct person, they often botch the execution. Here is a short list of famous botched executions from the recent era.

Some Examples of Post-Furman Botched Executions | Death Penalty Information Center


10. May 24, 1989. Texas. Stephen McCoy. Lethal Injection. He had such a violent physical reaction to the drugs (heaving chest, gasping, choking, back arching off the gurney, etc.) that one of the witnesses (male) fainted, crashing into and knocking over another witness. Houston attorney Karen Zellars, who represented McCoy and witnessed the execution, thought the fainting would catalyze a chain reaction. The Texas Attorney General admitted the inmate "seemed to have a somewhat stronger reaction," adding "The drugs might have been administered in a heavier dose or more rapidly."[14]

17. April 6, 1992. Arizona. Donald Eugene Harding. Asphyxiation. Death was not pronounced until 10 1/2 minutes after the cyanide tablets were dropped.[23] During the execution, Harding thrashed and struggled violently against the restraining straps. A television journalist who witnessed the execution, Cameron Harper, said that Harding's spasms and jerks lasted 6 minutes and 37 seconds. "Obviously, this man was suffering. This was a violent death ... an ugly event. We put animals to death more humanely."[24] Another witness, newspaper reporter Carla McClain, said, "Harding's death was extremely violent. He was in great pain. I heard him gasp and moan. I saw his body turn from red to purple."[25] One reporter who witnessed the execution suffered from insomnia and assorted illnesses for several weeks; two others were "walking vegetables" for several days.[26]

25. March 25, 1997. Florida. Pedro Medina. Electrocution. A crown of foot-high flames shot from the headpiece during the execution, filling the execution chamber with a stench of thick smoke and gagging the two dozen official witnesses. An official then threw a switch to manually cut off the power and prematurely end the two-minute cycle of 2,000 volts. Medina's chest continued to heave until the flames stopped and death came.[39] After the execution, prison officials blamed the fire on a corroded copper screen in the headpiece of the electric chair, but two experts hired by the governor later concluded that the fire was caused by the improper application of a sponge (designed to conduct electricity) to Medina's head.

 

[Two-Tornadoes]

Even when the state manages to convict the correct person, they often botch the execution. Here is a short list of famous botched executions from the recent era.

Some Examples of Post-Furman Botched Executions | Death Penalty Information Center


10. May 24, 1989. Texas. Stephen McCoy. Lethal Injection. He had such a violent physical reaction to the drugs (heaving chest, gasping, choking, back arching off the gurney, etc.) that one of the witnesses (male) fainted, crashing into and knocking over another witness. Houston attorney Karen Zellars, who represented McCoy and witnessed the execution, thought the fainting would catalyze a chain reaction. The Texas Attorney General admitted the inmate "seemed to have a somewhat stronger reaction," adding "The drugs might have been administered in a heavier dose or more rapidly."[14]

17. April 6, 1992. Arizona. Donald Eugene Harding. Asphyxiation. Death was not pronounced until 10 1/2 minutes after the cyanide tablets were dropped.[23] During the execution, Harding thrashed and struggled violently against the restraining straps. A television journalist who witnessed the execution, Cameron Harper, said that Harding's spasms and jerks lasted 6 minutes and 37 seconds. "Obviously, this man was suffering. This was a violent death ... an ugly event. We put animals to death more humanely."[24] Another witness, newspaper reporter Carla McClain, said, "Harding's death was extremely violent. He was in great pain. I heard him gasp and moan. I saw his body turn from red to purple."[25] One reporter who witnessed the execution suffered from insomnia and assorted illnesses for several weeks; two others were "walking vegetables" for several days.[26]

25. March 25, 1997. Florida. Pedro Medina. Electrocution. A crown of foot-high flames shot from the headpiece during the execution, filling the execution chamber with a stench of thick smoke and gagging the two dozen official witnesses. An official then threw a switch to manually cut off the power and prematurely end the two-minute cycle of 2,000 volts. Medina's chest continued to heave until the flames stopped and death came.[39] After the execution, prison officials blamed the fire on a corroded copper screen in the headpiece of the electric chair, but two experts hired by the governor later concluded that the fire was caused by the improper application of a sponge (designed to conduct electricity) to Medina's head.

What kind of agony did the victims go through? Why not post that? Or is it better to list the botched executions and ignore the hell that the victims went through?

 

[lucky4034]

I think there are instances where the death penalty is warranted. If someone pleads guilty to a death penalty sentence crime, then I see no reason to pay for them to sit in a prison for life.

I also don't understand all the red tape for people who plead guilty. Not sure how accurate it was, but I read it cost an arm and a leg. If they plead guilty, take them out back and make it quick. Shouldn't cost more than a couple of dollars and a few minutes time.

We have put people on the moon for pete's sake. You can't tell me we can't come up with a cheap, painless and effective way to kill a man. Carbon Monoxide is apparently a cheap and painless death... Run a hose from a Pickup truck and call it a day.

 

[KLB]

I think there are instances where the death penalty is warranted. If someone pleads guilty to a death penalty sentence crime, then I see no reason to pay for them to sit in a prison for life.

I also don't understand all the red tape for people who plead guilty. Not sure how accurate it was, but I read it cost an arm and a leg. If they plead guilty, take them out back and make it quick. Shouldn't cost more than a couple of dollars and a few minutes time.

We have put people on the moon for pete's sake. You can't tell me we can't come up with a cheap, painless and effective way to kill a man. Carbon Monoxide is apparently a cheap and painless death... Run a hose from a Pickup truck and call it a day.

Are you talking about pleading guilty in court or confessing?

You wouldn't get many guilty pleas in court if the defendant was quickly shuffled out and killed.

 

[lucky4034]

Are you talking about pleading guilty in court or confessing?

You wouldn't get many guilty pleas in court if the defendant was quickly shuffled out and killed.

Is the goal to get as many guilty pleas as we can? Because that seems like the main usage of the death penalty... to scare people into automatically pleading guilty.

How many times do they scare innocent people into a guilty plea to avoid the death penalty?

The Innocence Project - When the Innocent Plead Guilty
​

And for those who are clearly guilty... they allow them to plea bargain to avoid the death penalty.

James Holmes Will Plead Guilty To Avoid Death Penalty: LAist​

Something is broken here..... Its baffling that this P.O.S is still alive and breathing? It should have been a quick end for this little ****

 

[rambone]

What kind of agony did the victims go through? Why not post that? Or is it better to list the botched executions and ignore the hell that the vitims went through?

Sending a man to prison for life is hardly ignoring the victims. These archaic death shows on stage are not going to bring back the victims' loved ones.

If you need further reasons to oppose cruel and unusual punishments (as listed above), read the whole Bill of Rights some time. It contains more than just the 2nd Amendment.

 

[Double T]

Dammit Rambone, this is the second time I agree with you.

 

[JettaKnight]

Funny you're talking about the monetary aspect. From a past debate which I was forced to go on the other opinion, can you tell me the cost to execute a high profile inmate vs incarceration for life?

You have to pay for CC TV, added security, overtime and all...account for all of that as well as the auto appeal on death penalty cases.

Then tell me the cost of one single life sentence.

You might be surprised by which is actually cheaper.

So true, but, justice isn't cheap. However, I like have the death penalty as an option and deterrent even if used sparingly.

Entirely agreed, and there really should be a special treatment for them. Hanging and firing squad are actually quick and painless if done correctly. These people need to die slowly and very painfully.

Utah does. A condemned can choose that method.

Dammit Rambone, this is the second time I agree with you.

Scary, Huh? But Rambone and others are right about the current means of execution. I feel gunshot is the most effective method. There's no chemical formulas, no rope length, just .30 calibre. That's how I'd want to go.

What kind of agony did the victims go through? Why not post that? Or is it better to list the botched executions and ignore the hell that the victims went through?

Yes it is. Because we believe we're in the right and as such we feel it's our duty to make things as sterile as possible and remove all taint of killing from our hands. That's why we employ medical teams and use needles.

How many innocent people are you willing to kill in order to execute those who should be executed?

Maybe one in one fifty thousand? Or one thousand? No, seriously. We allow for the death of innocent people so we can get from city to city quickly. But, that's more of a lottery so the analogy might not work. What's the going estimate on innocent executions?

As for the "cruel and unusual" argument, it's definitely not unusual - it's been done throughout history. And it can't be considered cruel when it's a far cry less than what the prisoner inflicted on someone else. The Framers clearly didn't intend for capital punishment to fall under this or they would have immediately outlawed it by 1780.

 

[IndyDave1776]

So true, but, justice isn't cheap. However, I like have the death penalty as an option and deterrent even if used sparingly.






Scary, Huh? But Rambone and others are right about the current means of execution. I feel gunshot is the most effective method. There's no chemical formulas, no rope length, just .30 calibre. That's how I'd want to go.


Yes it is. Because we believe we're in the right and as such we feel it's our duty to make things as sterile as possible and remove all taint of killing from our hands. That's why we employ medical teams and use needles.


Maybe one in one fifty thousand? Or one thousand? No, seriously. We allow for the death of innocent people so we can get from city to city quickly. But, that's more of a lottery so the analogy might not work. What's the going estimate on innocent executions?

As for the "cruel and unusual" argument, it's definitely not unusual - it's been done throughout history. And it can't be considered cruel when it's a far cry less than what the prisoner inflicted on someone else. The Framers clearly didn't intend for capital punishment to fall under this or they would have immediately outlawed it by 1780.

I agree for the most part. My problem with execution is that it is irreversible and presently held in some of the most corrupt hands in American history. I certainly wouldn't want to face such a threat in the hands of the same people who have declared that any one of being a veteran, believing in following the Constitution, supporting the Second Amendment, opposing abortion, opposing illegal immigration, and believing in the Second Coming of Christ make a person a terrorist.

 

[Staalbund]

How many murderers and rapists have been released from prison years later after it is proven they could not possibly have committed the crime? Too many.

What is you had the murders on video with undeniable proof.

 

[Tombs]

Might as well weigh in...

I find the death penalty, as typically used, to be pretty senseless.
That's not to say I disagree with a death penalty.

Here's the simple process it should involve:
Is this person going to be a repeat offender that can't be reformed? (Providing they already meet the requirements for capital punishment)

If so, why make them wait for years and years knowing they have nothing to lose?
Just drag them out behind the court house and shoot them, it's a hell of a lot more humane.

The prison system in general is a senseless joke anyway. It's just a means to turn moderate offenders into vastly more violent ones. Prison as punishment isn't going to benefit any of us. That's what community service is for. No, prison is to keep public dangers off the street until they're no longer a danger. The death penalty is to abolish those who will always be a threat to the public.

 

[Two-Tornadoes]

Sending a man to prison for life is hardly ignoring the victims. These archaic death shows on stage are not going to bring back the victims' loved ones.

If you need further reasons to oppose cruel and unusual punishments (as listed above), read the whole Bill of Rights some time. It contains more than just the 2nd Amendment.

I have read the Bill of Rights. The victims of these scum bags had all of those rights taken away without a chance to continue fullfilling their rights. The scum bag criminal made him/herself judge jury and executioner without consulting with the victim about if their rights were being infringed upon.

By the way no kidding, wow I didn't know that there is more in the Bill of Rights than the Second Amendment.