Defensive Ammo Questions

[croy]

I always run HSTs or pdx1 in my guns.

Depending on the gun I usually run a couple mags through it. If its a single stack gun more. Usually 30 rds or so.

 

[Doublehelix]

I always run HSTs or pdx1 in my guns.

Depending on the gun I usually run a couple mags through it. If its a single stack gun more. Usually 30 rds or so.

Great advice, and this is a *must* no matter what the cost. "Shoot a box of 50 before choosing" is a good mantra to keep.

I also cycle through the current SD ammo about every 6 months or so. I have the mag in the gun and 2 backup mags that I shoot through just to make sure the gun functions properly. No need for surprises when in a crisis.

 

[CraigAPS]

Great advice, and this is a *must* no matter what the cost. "Shoot a box of 50 before choosing" is a good mantra to keep.

I also cycle through the current SD ammo about every 6 months or so. I have the mag in the gun and 2 backup mags that I shoot through just to make sure the gun functions properly. No need for surprises when in a crisis.

Why every six months? Is it due to bullet setback or just chewing up the rim by rechambering or just don't want your ammo to be too old in your carry gun?

Just ordered some Speer GDs and Federal HSTs ( Standard pressure 147gr on both). We'll see how my gun likes them!

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Why every six months? Is it due to bullet setback or just chewing up the rim by rechambering or just don't want your ammo to be too old in your carry gun?

Just ordered some Speer GDs and Federal HSTs ( Standard pressure 147gr on both). We'll see how my gun likes them!

Bullet set back can be measured (or seen) before its an issue. Your gun shouldn't be damaging the rim at all. However repeated chamberings can damage the primer. How many it takes varies on the ammo and the gun. There has been testing of this, but the results aren't publicly available. I know some folks who toss the top round into the practice bin every time they go to dry fire. Cheap insurance, I guess, but I think that's over kill. I can't give you a firm number of how many is "too many", but I don't think it's in the single digits.

 

[CraigAPS]

Bullet set back can be measured (or seen) before its an issue. Your gun shouldn't be damaging the rim at all. However repeated chamberings can damage the primer. How many it takes varies on the ammo and the gun. There has been testing of this, but the results aren't publicly available. I know some folks who toss the top round into the practice bin every time they go to dry fire. Cheap insurance, I guess, but I think that's over kill. I can't give you a firm number of how many is "too many", but I don't think it's in the single digits.

I had assumed that the extractor would mark the rim, and, after multiple extractions, start chewing up the rim. Apparently, that is wrong. From the little bit of "research" (watching YouTube ) I've done, it seems like rechambering a round a handful of times isn't too bad for it, but it could be a problem over time. Here are two that one YouTuber did:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_sPuwKEiDA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbcZ39PDlyY

 

[Doublehelix]

Why every six months? Is it due to bullet setback or just chewing up the rim by rechambering or just don't want your ammo to be too old in your carry gun?

No specific reason with any real data to back it up.

Just to keep the ammo fresh. It gets carried IWB in my sweaty waistband or in my lint-filled pocket.

Plus, it gives me a chance to exercise, clean and lube the gun when I am done. I like to make sure I fire it every once in a while, and shooting through my current carry inventory is a good excuse as any.

 

[cosermann]

In addition to what's been mentioned, repeated chambering of a round can break up the primer pellet (in some guns) leading to unreliable ignition of the round that's been rechambered multiple times.

 

[croy]

No specific reason with any real data to back it up.

Just to keep the ammo fresh. It gets carried IWB in my sweaty waistband or in my lint-filled pocket.

Plus, it gives me a chance to exercise, clean and lube the gun when I am done. I like to make sure I fire it every once in a while, and shooting through my current carry inventory is a good excuse as any.

I do the same, but I normally shoot at least once a month. In the warmer months more frequently. Last couple months its been 1-2 times a week.

I usually shoot it up depending how many times I've unloaded, reloaded, and carried. I dont stick to an exact number just whenever I start thinking about how many times I have cleaned a gun and how many range trips. I slacked a bit not too long ago. I had some carry ammo that had been in the same gun for almost 2 years. But it wasn't carried much nor unloaded but last couple months has been my work horse.

I have multiples of the same gun so I can mix it up but stay the same. None are the exact same but very few differences that matter. Like one may have different sights or color.

 

[numbaonecoltsfan]

Thank you BBI. Once again a huge amount of valuable trusted knowledge.

 

[russc2542]

I'm not a fan of Critical Defense. Hornady markets it as "low recoil" and for short barrel guns, but that translates into a light bullet with barely adequate penetration in the best of circumstances. Critical Duty +P is on DocGKR's list, but the standard pressure is not.

Take a look at the bonded 147 gr offerings out there. I know there are lighter bullets that pass the FBI specs, but I'm still of the opinion heavy-for-caliber bullets that retain mass are the better option.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe Hornady has a few lines for CD, there is a low-recoil short-barrel version but there's also a critical defense without that line.

 

[cosermann]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe Hornady has a few lines for CD, there is a low-recoil short-barrel version but there's also a critical defense without that line.

Nothing heavier than 115 gr for 9mm from what I see - https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/critical-defense#!/

 

[YoungMilsurpGuy]

Is it bad that I carry 147 grain WWB Hollowpoints in my CZ 75?

I saw the gel test videos and in a service pistol length barrel it actually penetrates well and has decent expansion despite not having a smooth expansion profile.

And in my CZ I have over 2000 rounds down the pipe in USPSA and no malfunctions, including about 200 rounds of mixed hollowpoints and 2 25 rounds of winchester whitebox shot at the last stage of a USPSA match when my gun is good and dirty.

IDK I am a big fan of the standard pressure 147 grain ammo as it has the weight and momentum to ensure adequate penetration and its recoil characteristics are about the same if not slightly less then the tulammo and occasionally federal ball I shoot every month at USPSA.

I think with 9mm any kind of remote wounding effects doesnt work and the differences in expansion are rather small, so what matters more is if a round can penetrate well, and can be shot accurately and quickly and only then I view expansion as a remote secondary benefit(and perhaps a hindrance as light bullets can perform well on 10% gel but fail when shooting a person as people tend to be much toughter).

In fact, especially if its cold out or in America where there is larger people, when carrying a 9mm, I would rather have a 147 grain flat point FMJ then anything but the best 115 grain hollowpoints. And I would be dubious of the 124 grain loadings. However, from what I have seen if you are shooting a fullsize pistol with a service length barrel Hornaday critical duty is pretty excellent in terms of penetration and has decent expansion

Also below a 4 inch barrel Im very dubious of any hollowpoint in 9mm below 147 grains and not a +P. Like for example in a gun like a S&W shield I would rather again go with a heavy flat pointed ball round versus a light 9mm or the rather ghastly HST or other "Mircopistol" loads. In a similar vein for snubbies I think the 158 grn Lead Semi Wadcutter is about the best mousegun bullet but that is just me

 

[numbaonecoltsfan]

Nothing heavier than 115 gr for 9mm from what I see - https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/critical-defense#!/

Critical duty is the heavy full power load. Critical defense is the lighter short barrel stuff

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Is it bad that I carry 147 grain WWB Hollowpoints in my CZ 75?

How do they do on weight retention when they hit bone or intermediate barriers? That's usually what separates the budget brands from the premium offerings.

I've seen a LOT of jackets shed from cheap ammo.

 

[LCSOSgt11]

One can discuss the merits of bullet weight in a certain caliber. For performance, I have never had any trouble with Hornady Critical Defense or Critical Duty. My second choice would be the Cor-Bon family of ammunition. The fun is in the shopping.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe Hornady has a few lines for CD, there is a low-recoil short-barrel version but there's also a critical defense without that line.

I suspect you're thinking of Critical Duty. If there's something else out there that splits the difference between "Defense" and "Duty", I'm unaware of it.

 

[cosermann]

Critical duty is the heavy full power load. Critical defense is the lighter short barrel stuff

The context of the question from post 30 was Critical Defense.

But yeah, it's the Critical Duty line that has the slightly heavier 135 gr bullet and std and +p loadings.

... For performance, I have never had any trouble with Hornady Critical Defense or Critical Duty. ...

How do you define "performance?"

 

[russc2542]

Nothing heavier than 115 gr for 9mm from what I see - https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/critical-defense#!/

I didn't say there was anything heaver than 115gr, just that there was more than one line of critical defense:

Critical Defense "Lite" 100gr (low recoil that BBI mentioned. I've also seen the boxes labeled "low recoil, short barrel")
Critical Defense 115gr (standard, no mention of barrel length)
Critical Duty 135gr (standard and +P options?)

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I didn't say there was anything heaver than 115gr, just that there was more than one line of critical defense:

Critical Defense "Lite" 100gr (low recoil that BBI mentioned. I've also seen the boxes labeled "low recoil, short barrel")
Critical Defense 115gr (standard, no mention of barrel length)
Critical Duty 135gr (standard and +P options?)

https://www.hornady.com/support/duty-defense-differences

[FONT=&quot]Additionally, Critical Defense[/FONT][FONT=&quot]®[/FONT][FONT=&quot] ammunition [/FONT]IS [FONT=&quot]optimized for short barreled, concealed carry style handguns and will not deliver excessive recoil and associated muzzle flip.[/FONT]

https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/critical-defense#!/

[FONT=&quot]Critical Defense[/FONT][FONT=&quot]®[/FONT][FONT=&quot] ammunition was developed to provide the best performance for defensive or personal protection situations and is the ultimate choice for any short barreled, concealed carry style firearm[/FONT]

Then the even further reduced power load:

[h=3]CRITICAL DEFENSE® LITE[/h][FONT=&quot]Critical Defense® Lite™ ammunition offers an effective, reduced recoil option for any shooter looking to minimize felt recoil of their lightweight, compact personal protection firearm.[/FONT]

 

[rhino]

How do they do on weight retention when they hit bone or intermediate barriers? That's usually what separates the budget brands from the premium offerings.

I've seen a LOT of jackets shed from cheap ammo.

That's the big difference between the modern JHP bullets and the less modern JHP bullets. When the jacket is bonded to the core, it's far less likely to separate when passing through a barrier or hitting something hard.

There are also solid copper hollow points that perform well in testing (Cor-Bon is the one that has been tested the most). They can't suffer from jacket separation because there is no jacket to separate.