Denial?

[OneBadV8]

So, do I need a VAF to stop it from happening again, or will the denial appeal fix it? Getting the denial overturned fixes nothing if I get denied on the next transaction again.

i would do a VAF if I were you, it won’t prevent it 100% but it will greatly reduce the chance of a mixup again. Then on the 4473 instead of your social, you’ll write in your VAF number.

 

[churchmouse]

i would do a VAF if I were you, it won’t prevent it 100% but it will greatly reduce the chance of a mixup again. Then on the 4473 instead of your social, you’ll write in your VAF number.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[Ark]

i would do a VAF if I were you, it won’t prevent it 100% but it will greatly reduce the chance of a mixup again. Then on the 4473 instead of your social, you’ll write in your VAF number.

Hmmm, copy that.

 

[Ark]

UPDATE!

Came back today, total elapsed time just over 30 days. Denial was overturned after submitting fingerprints. For any who haven't completed the challenge process (NOT the VAF), what happens when it gets overturned is they send you a document with a number on it that is basically one free "proceed" at the FFL associated with the NTN number that you put on your initial filing. So, if I wanted, and if the gun was still in inventory, I could go back to the FFL with this document and complete the transaction. I will not be doing this, as I highly doubt the gun in question is still on the shelf, and either way I ended up picking up a nice SxS out of the INGO classifieds to use for squirrels this year instead of the Ithaca I was trying to buy. To be honest, shooting a SxS has turned out to be a hoot and I'm not all that sorry things turned out this way.

It's definitely a relief to discover I wasn't convicted of something in abstentia. I applied for a census taker job back in 2010 and had a similar conflict pop up where I had to also submit fingerprints. It appears there's definitely somebody out there with a record that is close to my name. My current theory why the denial happened? I suspect the guy at the pawn shop was simply too lazy to actually type in my SSN from the form, and it popped based on my name.

At some point I will go for another 4473 and see if that one goes through. I've been holding off on ordering anything new. It's good to know that if I did drop serious money on a new gun and get denied, it could sit at the FFL while this process completed again.

Also **** the feds all gun laws are an infringement and a right delayed is a right denied

 

[jspy5]

I was a little hesitant after reading some comments on being delayed but my experience yesterday was less than 5 minutes.

 

[Slapstick]

UPDATE!

... My current theory why the denial happened? I suspect the guy at the pawn shop was simply too lazy to actually type in my SSN from the form, and it popped based on my name. ...

I seriously doubt it. My guess is that 1) NICS is overloaded with people trying to buy or get permits, It's slowing things down and erroneous info isn't getting purged. 2) During the last Fed budget they passes a shortened version of of "Fix NICS". It gave the States incentives to submit even more records into the NICS system which is also causing problems with bad or incomplete records being entered. I've seen people I've sold to in the past without a problem getting delayed and denied for no discernible reason except maybe bad info was entered into the system. They've all appealed and won but it took time and it never should have happened.

 

[Alexis Machine]

UPIN took me about 3 months to get last spring. If I remember correctly, delays go off of the nics in 90 day or maybe it's six months. Denials are on there 4evah. Even if appealed. This means they are going to kick you upstairs every single time from now on. It's worth getting the upin. It's not like they don't know who is buying guns anyway.

 

[mmpsteve]

Delayed yesterday on a transfer. First time in over 100 transfers, so we'll see. My LGS showed me a stack of probably 150 delays he's waiting on. Getting to be a problem for him storing and staying organized with all the stuff.

A more interesting thing he told me is that he's taking over delayed transfers for a local Big Brand Store , whose corporate policy won't let them transfer unless they get an 'APPROVED', even though it's legal after the required time period.

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[johny5]

Delayed yesterday on a transfer. First time in over 100 transfers, so we'll see. My LGS showed me a stack of probably 150 delays he's waiting on. Getting to be a problem for him storing and staying organized with all the stuff.

A more interesting thing he told me is that he's taking over delayed transfers for a local Big Brand Store , whose corporate policy won't let them transfer unless they get an 'APPROVED', even though it's legal after the required time period.

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We are living through dangerous times...

 

[Steel and wood]

8368701[/URL]]Delayed yesterday on a transfer. First time in over 100 transfers, so we'll see. My LGS showed me a stack of probably 150 delays he's waiting on. Getting to be a problem for him storing and staying organized with all the stuff.

A more interesting thing he told me is that he's taking over delayed transfers for a local Big Brand Store , whose corporate policy won't let them transfer unless they get an 'APPROVED', even though it's legal after the required time period.

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I also got delayed last Saturday first time ever. The dealer told me see you Thursday unless I get approved earlier he called Tuesday and said to come pick up my new pistol.
He told me he has had more delays than ever before just figured that NICS was just so a big backlog. Sure made me nervous. Just wish Indiana had the law if you have a pistol permit you are go to go.

 

[Steel and wood]

I also forgot Ark glad it worked out for you it sucks you had to jump through the hoops

 

[mmpsteve]

Picked up my item at the LGS today after being delayed on Thursday. All's well that ends well.

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[Gabriel]

I tried to get a rifle earlier this month and my delay was 11 days this time before I got a proceed. I've been delayed every time in the last two years.

I have everything filled out for a UPIN and fingerprinted myself the other night at work, I just haven't' sent it in yet.

 

[mmpsteve]

I tried to get a rifle earlier this month and my delay was 11 days this time before I got a proceed. I've been delayed every time in the last two years.

I have everything filled out for a UPIN and fingerprinted myself the other night at work, I just haven't' sent it in yet.

Gabriel, just curious, I didn't ask my LGS if they had ever gotten a proceed for my item. They just said I could come get it. My understanding is that, barring a 'denied' from the NCIS system, they can release the item to you after 72 Business Hours, or roughly 3 days. Not all dealers will honor that 3 day system (Cabelas), even though it's legal. Can you give any details on your 11 day delay. Again, I'm just curious.

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[whistlenpete]

I always put my SSN on the form.

Submitted the form to get the reason for the denial and it came back:

Title 18, United States Code (U.S.C.), Sections 921(a)(20) and 922(g)(1): “A person who has been convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year or any state offense classified by the state as a misdemeanor and is punishable by a term of imprisonment of more than two years.” Please note that it does not matter whether the sentence of more than one or two years was actually ordered or served; the prohibitor is based upon the maximum sentence that could have been imposed upon the individual by the court. In addition, some convictions which may have been “sealed” or “expunged” for certain purposes still qualify as 18 U.S.C. §922(g)(1) prohibitors.

So I think it matched me incorrectly to someone with a record. I went ahead and followed the process to submit an appeal and fingerprints. Super weird that this issue apparently never came up before now.

Anyone know what the turnaround time on one of these appeals typically is, or what it takes to get a UPIN to avoid it again? Apocalypse Year is a bad time to be denied 2A rights for months on end...

I am wondering, did you ever get this straightened out? I ask because I just ran into the exact same issue. I got my lifetime carry permit for the state of Indiana earlier this year but when I went to finally purchase I was delayed. The place called me back about 5 days later and said that they could go ahead and sell it to me as a "Brady sale" since they had not gotten a reply back in 5 days, but I was out of town for work. When I got back in town a few days later, but before i could make it to pick it up, they called again and said that it was denied. Using the NTN number they gave me I was able to find out why and it's exactly the seem reason as yours. I'd like to know if you were able to get it squared away and if so how, and if you had any advice.

 

[Ark]

I am wondering, did you ever get this straightened out? I ask because I just ran into the exact same issue. I got my lifetime carry permit for the state of Indiana earlier this year but when I went to finally purchase I was delayed. The place called me back about 5 days later and said that they could go ahead and sell it to me as a "Brady sale" since they had not gotten a reply back in 5 days, but I was out of town for work. When I got back in town a few days later, but before i could make it to pick it up, they called again and said that it was denied. Using the NTN number they gave me I was able to find out why and it's exactly the seem reason as yours. I'd like to know if you were able to get it squared away and if so how, and if you had any advice.

Yes, see above post. It took somewhere around 30 days to get a letter in the mail basically saying "show this to the FFL to proceed with the sale". It was moot by that point, I'd changed plans and bought something else privately. Total cost was postage plus a fingerprint card from the local PD, IIRC you submit the appeal form online and they email you a link and a PIN to check status on it. Somewhere in there, they give you instructions for mailing the card so it gets applied to your appeal. It's a simple process, by government standards.

I did not end up pursuing the UPIN.

There have been other 4473s for me since then that zipped through without issue. My conclusion is that due to extreme demand on the system, they were either having mistakes made or they were defaulting to denial for delay time-outs.

It's probably a good thing you didn't proceed with the sale, as they may have wound up in the position of having to recover the firearm from you. If your FFL is chill they should have no problem sticking it on a shelf for a month while you do the appeal. If you passed the Indiana LTCH check and other 4473s I would expect the appeal to go through without issue.

 

[KellyinAvon]

I am wondering, did you ever get this straightened out? I ask because I just ran into the exact same issue. I got my lifetime carry permit for the state of Indiana earlier this year but when I went to finally purchase I was delayed. The place called me back about 5 days later and said that they could go ahead and sell it to me as a "Brady sale" since they had not gotten a reply back in 5 days, but I was out of town for work. When I got back in town a few days later, but before i could make it to pick it up, they called again and said that it was denied. Using the NTN number they gave me I was able to find out why and it's exactly the seem reason as yours. I'd like to know if you were able to get it squared away and if so how, and if you had any advice.

Welcome to INGO! Under Forums select the introductions/greetings sub-thread and introduce yourself.

Good bunch around here, best gun forum on the Interwebz.

 

[pitbulld45]

Gabriel, just curious, I didn't ask my LGS if they had ever gotten a proceed for my item. They just said I could come get it. My understanding is that, barring a 'denied' from the NCIS system, they can release the item to you after 72 Business Hours, or roughly 3 days. Not all dealers will honor that 3 day system (Cabelas), even though it's legal. Can you give any details on your 11 day delay. Again, I'm just curious.

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Thats my understanding too, I have been delayed many times and after three days they have always released my gun to me.