Detonics MTX compact 1911 ~first shooting impressions

[melensdad]

With the high school fencing season in full swing I've not had time to actually get out and do any shooting over the past month. This morning I figured I'd change my routine. So at 7:30 this morning I gave all the neighbors who were not up and eating their Post Toasties a string of 45acp wake up calls. It was 34 degrees, there was a light fog hanging over the back field, and a heavy frost on the ground, but that was not going to stop my fun.

My biggest concern was the grip texture and if the gun would slip or twist in my hand under the recoil of the shots. Turned out to be a totally unfounded concern. The new MTX is easily the lowest recoiling 1911 that I've ever held, the slightly altered grip angle, combined with the higher grip on the gun because of the relieved area under the trigger guard and the scalloped rear area under the beavertail make for a very secure grip ... even with cold hands ... and all that made the gun every easy to control, with a very light (for a 45acp) recoil and a modest muzzle flip that allowed the front sight to come back down to the target quickly.

I didn't fire the gun rapid fire, but was shooting at a pace that was probably a little faster than 1 shot a second. I was at roughly 25' from the target, standing, and shooting with a pretty relaxed 2 hand hold.

The folks at Detonics changed the grip angle of the 1911 to the same angle that is used on the Browning Hi-Power. But the grip, while it mimics the general silhouette of the BHP feels much more like the more ergonomic grip of the CZ 75. For those who've not shot the CZ 75 pistols, that gun is really just a DA/SA variant of the BHP design, but modernized in several ways. The grip is not as rectangular and blocky as the BHP grip and generally feels better in the hand. This new Detonics MTX takes up the ergonomics another couple of steps. It fills the palm of the hand nicely, the rear of the grip is well rounded, and while it looks bulky its really easy to grasp by folks with most hand sizes because of the relief under the trigger guard. The grip safety is, like original Detonics CombatMaster, deactivated, and that allowed the rear of the grip to be carved out. It makes for a very high hand hold and lowers the bore-axis closer ratio closer to the line of your arm. Your index finger, due to the scalloped rear and undercut trigger guard, is placed directly in line with the gun's trigger.

On my gun the trigger pulls back cleanly for about 1/8th of an inch and then snaps cleanly with virtually zero over-travel.

I have a feeling that this gun (in the full size 5" barrel & 14 round magazine version) will become very popular with the competition shooting crowd. I wouldn't be surprised to see some of the SWAT team types adopting this gun.

Easy to shoot quickly and easy to control, my aging eyes, aided by trifocal glasses, had no real problem putting shots on target quickly and accurately.

 

[riverman67]

Sounds like it will make a great limited division USPSA contender when it comes out in 40.
The 14 round capacity would require an extra reload on 32 round field courses
Thanks for the review

 

[melensdad]

I know they have plans for other calibers, not sure when they will be released, not even sure which calibers they will put out, but I hear its in the works!

 

[Fordtough25]

Nice gun, I like your target choices better!

 

[melensdad]

Nice gun, I like your target choices better!

The targets do bring out my best

 

[geronimojoe85]

Well, after handling the prototype I have a few opinions.
First, they need to make them.
Second, they need to make a lot of them.

It felt really nice in my hand. Like I said in an earlier thread it looks like a CZ and 1911 had a retarded love child. But that grip is really nice I kind of like the milling marks on it, I don't know why. Very ergonomic, and very well thought out.

The mag release, I like it, it's very functional, BUT it kind of sticks way out there. So much so that I'm turned off when I think about carrying it.

The magazine has a sharp edge on the bottom of the baseplate that can cause printing issues. This is something that I'm sure one could solve this with a dremel.

The slide release is hard to put back in. Unless you push in the detent with a small screwdriver or something.

Other than those small criticisms, I've got nothing major I can say against it. Well that is until I shoot it. Really, it's detonics' game to lose. If they can't get the word out about the guns they won't sell. There is a lot of group think in the firearms community. "I buy glocks because everybody else has one" type of stuff. If you can put the gun in people's hands you're going to have a winner. If you can't then you're going to have a hell of a time moving them.

 

[melensdad]

Joe I think you make some excellent points.

SLIDE RELEASE: One thing that Detonics is known for is disassembly and reassembly without any tools. This new gun is 99.8% there. If the slide release was beveled slightly on the back/rear it would depress the plunger and fit without a tool. Its simple enough to swap in a new part, one shaped to do that, since this is simply a universal 1911 part, but I want to keep these first 2 guns 100% original. With luck, Detonics will recut the part on future production pieces and this "problem" will vanish.


MAGAZINE RELEASE: I just don't know. Until I get a holster I'll totally agree that the button "sticks way out" and it sure does seem odd. It is very useful, very ergonomic, and in a "duty" holster it may be the perfect set up. In a "competition" holster it may be the perfect set up. In a CrossBreed Super Tuck Deluxe or similar IWB holster used by the concealed carry crowd I have a feeling it may be somewhat less than ideal. But I don't have any holster that will fit this gun (yet). Maybe Santa will bring me a new holster and I'll report back.


'PRINTING' of the HARD EDGE ON MAGAZINE BASEPLATE: "oh snap" as they say on the TV sit-coms. And when you think about it, the original Detonics was a supreme concealed carry weapon, but this one has a magazine that not only lengthens the grip but effectively sharpens the grip profile making it far more likely to "print" while being worn under thin material, when you bend over/reach for something etc. Personally, I'd take a magazine with 1 less (if necessary) round that fit flush to the bottom of t the gun. But again, I'm coming from the standpoint of the Concealed Carry perspective.

I'll try to take some photos of the magazine baseplate and post them up later so people can see the shape to which Joe refers.

 

[Birds Away]

Wow! I didn't notice it on the first group of pictures you posted. Your mag release looks very happy to see you.

 

[melensdad]

Here are the photos of the of the magazine baseplate. As Joe pointed out, they have a sharp edge. Like him, I do agree that if it was radiuses to soften the edge it would not print with a hard line.

And I do agree with Joe that this is a minor issue in the grand scheme of things, not an issue at all in an OWB holster for duty or open carry, not an issue for carry under a jacket, etc.

Wow! I didn't notice it on the first group of pictures you posted. Your mag release looks very happy to see you.

Yes, it does stand up tall and proud.

But while we were looking at it last night (there were a few INGO members at the cigar lounge playing with the gun) if you look at it from the top of the slide down the gun, the magazine release does not stick out any wider than the thumb safety so it doesn't increase the width of the gun.

Also, in the test phase of the gun, the hard core operators who were involved in the testing (government types & competition shooters) they all seemed to endorse the long mag release button. Perhaps it just 'looks' odd but it works really well in practice.

Again, I'm curious to see how well it works in a CC type holster.

 

[geronimojoe85]

Yeah, it seems to be geared toward the CC market with the short barrel. If it was geared for a competition piece it would have a full sized barrel. I'd be happier than a pig in poop if it came with a govt. size slide. And I know that that will come later, but just like a spoiled child I want it NOW!

 

[melensdad]

Yeah, it seems to be geared toward the CC market with the short barrel. If it was geared for a competition piece it would have a full sized barrel. I'd be happier than a pig in poop if it came with a govt. size slide. And I know that that will come later, but just like a spoiled child I want it NOW!

I believe that when it comes out with the 5" slide it will also come out with a full length grip and higher capacity magazine.

 

[geronimojoe85]

But Bob,

I believe that when it comes out with the 5" slide it will also come out with a full length grip and higher capacity magazine.

 

[rockhopper46038]

Wow! I didn't notice it on the first group of pictures you posted. Your mag release looks very happy to see you.

Jeepers!

Mag release aside, I think I'd like one of these in a government model frame, too.

If those magazine baseplates are machined, it would be an easy enough program change, provided Detonics agrees that the sharp edge ought to be softened a bit. That hard edge may have been a "stylistic" decision rather than functionally considered.

If plastic, changing the tool would not be "steel safe", and would require some weld up on the tool though.

 

[sadclownwp]

I think that 1911 is one of the most innovated designs I have ever seen. It was an absolute pleasure to hold and may very well have been the lightest 1911 I have ever held. the slide serrations are my very idea of perfection. I love how deep they are, they make me feel like if it was deep winter and I had bulky gloves on, I could easily actuate the slide if needed. The hammer has a great feel to it. It is the little things like the curve on the hammer serrations that separate a great gun from a good one.

The grip is in my opinion is almost perfect. I have not shot it, so I can only comment on the observations I was able to make last night. I love how it is similar to the browning high power or CZ 75. I love how thick it is, please let that not change. the rounded out indent near the trigger guard really blew me away. I have never seen or felt anything like that grip before in my life, I loved it.

Cons on the grip: I would like to see some deeper and sharper for a less slick feel to the grip. This being said, I have not shot it, so it may not be a problem at all. I would also like to see the availibility of putting custom grips on it like you can with regular 1911's because I have gotten used to the feel of the Hogue grips on my guns and would like that to transfer over to the Detonics.

I do have to ask about the magazine release that sticks out an inch, ok not really an inch, but is there a reason for it. If there is a reason for it then I will not knock it for that, but I can't see a reason for such a long mag release.

I just can't wait to see this pistol in a 9mm Full sized gun,

 

[melensdad]

Andrew I have to say that there is part of me that wants some sort of deeper/sharper grip panels, and for that matter the backstrap cuts too. Its something that I was very concerned about before I went out shooting the gun. I'm not so worried about it now but it is still something that rumbles around in the recesses of my mind . . . will it be slippery in the rain? . . . what if there is blood on my hand? . . . what if its hot and humid and my hands are sweaty?

I had absolutely no problems with the gun bare handed in 34 degree weather so I probably won't have problems in other conditions, but I suppose I'll have to try it to prove it to myself.

As for putting Hogue grips on this gun, all I can say is SHAME ON YOU for even thinking that! I know you like your M&P with its big rubber grips, but slapping those rubber pigs on this gun would be a sin.

As with most everyone else, you bring up the magazine release. And I agree with you. Its too darn tall. I know that the secret squirrels, professionals and competitive gun slingers all like the tall button . . . but I am none of those and I question it from the standpoint of the CC user.

You mentioned the grip in a positive way, and I have to ask, while we all were passing that gun around, with people of different size hands, have you ever had a group ever so universally compliment a guns grip fitting their hand size? I know I never have seen it. In this day and age we see many of the gun companies offering different size inserts to fit different size hands. I'm sure this grip won't fit someone but its odd that so many different people seemed so universally favorable to the grip. I wonder what [strike]Alyssa[/strike] Larissa would say about the grips? She has tried quite a few guns out at the INGO shoots, it would be interesting to get her opinion.

 

[sadclownwp]

You mentioned the grip in a positive way, and I have to ask, while we all were passing that gun around, with people of different size hands, have you ever had a group ever so universally compliment a guns grip fitting their hand size? I know I never have seen it. In this day and age we see many of the gun companies offering different size inserts to fit different size hands. I'm sure this grip won't fit someone but its odd that so many different people seemed so universally favorable to the grip. I wonder what Alyssa would say about the grips? She has tried quite a few guns out at the INGO shoots, it would be interesting to get her opinion.

I have never in my live seen so many people with different hand sizes all come to the same opinion about a guns grip. It was actually kinda weird that everyone who touched it liked its grip. I really did expect someone to not like it, but I guess when a grip is that comfortable there is nothing to not like.

Larissa might like that gun, it is compact and light. I wonder how the recoil would treat her. Perhaps one day I could get her away from homework and get her up north and we could record her opinions on it. But I doubt that will happen before the end of finals time.

 

[Chefcook]

With the high school fencing season in full swing I've not had time to actually get out and do any shooting over the past month. This morning I figured I'd change my routine. So at 7:30 this morning I gave all the neighbors who were not up and eating their Post Toasties a string of 45acp wake up calls. It was 34 degrees, there was a light fog hanging over the back field, and a heavy frost on the ground, but that was not going to stop my fun.

My biggest concern was the grip texture and if the gun would slip or twist in my hand under the recoil of the shots. Turned out to be a totally unfounded concern. The new MTX is easily the lowest recoiling 1911 that I've ever held, the slightly altered grip angle, combined with the higher grip on the gun because of the relieved area under the trigger guard and the scalloped rear area under the beavertail make for a very secure grip ... even with cold hands ... and all that made the gun every easy to control, with a very light (for a 45acp) recoil and a modest muzzle flip that allowed the front sight to come back down to the target quickly.

I didn't fire the gun rapid fire, but was shooting at a pace that was probably a little faster than 1 shot a second. I was at roughly 25' from the target, standing, and shooting with a pretty relaxed 2 hand hold.

The folks at Detonics changed the grip angle of the 1911 to the same angle that is used on the Browning Hi-Power. But the grip, while it mimics the general silhouette of the BHP feels much more like the more ergonomic grip of the CZ 75. For those who've not shot the CZ 75 pistols, that gun is really just a DA/SA variant of the BHP design, but modernized in several ways. The grip is not as rectangular and blocky as the BHP grip and generally feels better in the hand. This new Detonics MTX takes up the ergonomics another couple of steps. It fills the palm of the hand nicely, the rear of the grip is well rounded, and while it looks bulky its really easy to grasp by folks with most hand sizes because of the relief under the trigger guard. The grip safety is, like original Detonics CombatMaster, deactivated, and that allowed the rear of the grip to be carved out. It makes for a very high hand hold and lowers the bore-axis closer ratio closer to the line of your arm. Your index finger, due to the scalloped rear and undercut trigger guard, is placed directly in line with the gun's trigger.

On my gun the trigger pulls back cleanly for about 1/8th of an inch and then snaps cleanly with virtually zero over-travel.

I have a feeling that this gun (in the full size 5" barrel & 14 round magazine version) will become very popular with the competition shooting crowd. I wouldn't be surprised to see some of the SWAT team types adopting this gun.

Easy to shoot quickly and easy to control, my aging eyes, aided by trifocal glasses, had no real problem putting shots on target quickly and accurately.

Awesome I want to shoot that very badly, any chance your going to have time for Caleb and myself to come up and give her a little dance??? EDIT Just saw you last post in the other thread, please keep us posted...

 

[melensdad]

Today at the cigar lounge I had the 2-tone prototype pistol with me again. 5 of us were sitting in the lounge. 2 were police officers (Schererville & Cedar Lake) and I decided to pull the gun out and pass it around. The Schererville office is a huge guy, fists the size of ham hocks, he loved the grip and said it fit him will. The Cedar Lake officer is about 5'10 and has average size hands, his first comment was how great the grip felt in his hand. The other 2 guys with me were familiar with guns, both are hunters, one hunts deer with a revolver, the other just a shotgunner . . . again both of totally different builds and sizes and again both waxed on about the comfort of the grip.

Awesome I want to shoot that very badly, any chance your going to have time for Caleb and myself to come up and give her a little dance???

As I posted in the other thread I'd be happy to have you up here or to meet you somewhere but high school fencing season is an exceptionally hectic time for me. Between the cigar lounge and going from fencing practice at the high school then to the local fencing club, I'm running ragged. I get home at either 7pm or 9pm depending on the day, I'm at fencing tournaments every Saturday, and its typical to be repairing and rebuilding the team's weapons on Sunday to get ready for Monday!!!

My schedule will actually open up when the high school goes on Christmas Break as they don't have tournaments for 2 to 3 weeks due to Christmas and New Years. Possibly then I could meet you guys at the public range in Winamac as it would shave some time off your drive? The downside is the weather could be an issue as Winimac is an outdoor range.

 

[Chefcook]

Today at the cigar lounge I had the 2-tone prototype pistol with me again. 5 of us were sitting in the lounge. 2 were police officers (Schererville & Cedar Lake) and I decided to pull the gun out and pass it around. The Schererville office is a huge guy, fists the size of ham hocks, he loved the grip and said it fit him will. The Cedar Lake officer is about 5'10 and has average size hands, his first comment was how great the grip felt in his hand. The other 2 guys with me were familiar with guns, both are hunters, one hunts deer with a revolver, the other just a shotgunner . . . again both of totally different builds and sizes and again both waxed on about the comfort of the grip.





As I posted in the other thread I'd be happy to have you up here or to meet you somewhere but high school fencing season is an exceptionally hectic time for me. Between the cigar lounge and going from fencing practice at the high school then to the local fencing club, I'm running ragged. I get home at either 7pm or 9pm depending on the day, I'm at fencing tournaments every Saturday, and its typical to be repairing and rebuilding the team's weapons on Sunday to get ready for Monday!!!

My schedule will actually open up when the high school goes on Christmas Break as they don't have tournaments for 2 to 3 weeks due to Christmas and New Years. Possibly then I could meet you guys at the public range in Winamac as it would shave some time off your drive? The downside is the weather could be an issue as Winimac is an outdoor range.

That actually sounds like a good plan to me. I have tests this week and a research paper and finals the following week. Then the semester is over and I will be off from Dec 12th till Jan 3rd...

 

[melensdad]

I've commented several times and compared the Detonics MTX grips with the grips on a CZ 75 so I thought it was odd when I was speaking with the president of the company and mentioned that I thought the grip was a CZ inspired grip. He said no. He said its based purely on the Browning HP design and then modified by him and his engineers. My guess is that is exactly how the CZ grip was designed too. No matter how CZ or Detonics came up with their grip designs, the 2 companies came up with similar grips. The Detonics has the better grip design, the CZ is excellent but the Detonics is even better.

I did a comparison between a CZ 75 and the Detonics MTX compact.

Both are have an area relieved under the trigger guard, the CZ 75 is less pronounced and, consequently while its far better than a 1911, its not as good as the Detonics MTX.

Both also have a scalloped area where the web of your hand wraps around rear of the grip. I'd rate both of them as equal in that respect.

However, above the rear scalloped area is the beavertail and the CZ beaver tail essentially comes straight out of the back of the gun and forces your hand down when you are trying to get a high grip. The MTX beavertail is swept upward and allows for a higher and more comfortable grip on the rear of the gun.

The index (trigger) finger of my hand is set right at the center of the trigger on the MTX when I grab the Detonics pistol but with the CZ my index finger is actually in alignment of the pivot point at the top of the trigger. My index finger reaches slightly downward to engage the trigger on the CZ 75 but it reaches straight forward to engage the trigger on the Detonics MTX.

Now maybe I'm nit-picking, because both of these guns have superb ergonomic designs, both of these guns are exceptional pieces of engineering. The CZ is used by more police and military forces around the world than any other gun. Its clearly excellent. But as good as it is, I think the ergonomics of the new MTX are slightly better. That said, I like the look of a gun with grip panels, so I like the look of the CZ better because I can put some nice wood slabs on its side while I can't do that with the Detonics because its necessarily scaled up to handle the larger 45acp cartridges.

That actually sounds like a good plan to me. I have tests this week and a research paper and finals the following week. Then the semester is over and I will be off from Dec 12th till Jan 3rd...

Hopefully we can get together and make for a mini INGO shoot.