Did Law Change? Unreal incident at clinic...

[Hayseed_40]

This still bugs me. A) I am not sure why you think you need to type slowly for me. B) Your theory is wack.

If your first assumption is that a MWG is not a law abiding citizen that has his daughter at a Dr. appointment, and rather the guy sitting there calmly is a guy taking hostages, perhaps YOU should not be allowed to carry a gun. Clearly, your judgement is flawed.

People on here think you were being sarcastic. On some posts, yes, I think you were. On the post I directly responded to, based on my initial reading and the reading of the above post, you were not being sarcastic.

You are reading way too much into this...you are taking an OC case out of context. It is not just a calm man sitting while OC'ing - AT THAT MOMENT. Monday morning quarterbacking.

As far fetched as it may seem, the OP stated that the LEO's "stormed" into the room. We do not know what the 911 call stated. Assuming it was good since 7 officers responded the way they did. You know how people get whacky about a MWG no matter where it is.

So, I accept your appology for attacking my judgement. Just do not make a scene - I cry easily.

 

[Hayseed_40]

I would have questioned the lady you talked to. She apparently lied when she told them you pull your weapon. I would have got her to admit it her mistake.

I would imagine that the 911 call set the tone for the incident. Witnesses and 911 callers are not known for their accuracy.

 

[Que]

Is this towards me? Where have I not given due credit?

Not you, but the LE community as it relates to OC.

 

[Hayseed_40]

Not you, but the LE community as it relates to OC.

Agreed. I think it varies greatly by department
Do you think:
1) It is out of fear of guns and project that into their preception of law,
or
2) They do not mind guns and are just ignorant to laws.

It is discussed and trained but I think human nature takes over sense society in general is taught how evil guns are and the person carrying the gun (especially OC).

 

[MrsGungho]

I would imagine that the 911 call set the tone for the incident. Witnesses and 911 callers are not known for their accuracy.

absolutely correct. When the MWG call went in I was involved in they said a Mexican ran from the bar with a gun into the first door and they heard shots fired.
It was a black man, no gun, just ear muffs on his head and he did fire, but in the second door at the indoor range that isn't open to the public yet.

 

[phatgemi]

just another isolated incident...

Unfortunately these "isolated incidents" seem to be popping up almost daily. It seems that as the new law is becoming more known, that others are looking for any loophole and fighting back........

 

[EdC]

I would imagine that the 911 call set the tone for the incident. Witnesses and 911 callers are not known for their accuracy.

This. From the mouth of the MWG caller to the ears of the 911 operator, from the mouth of the 911 operator to officer taking the call (or maybe there's a dispatcher in between, I don't know), a lot can change. A word here or there, and the tone of any incident can be very different by the time the officer(s) arrive on the scene. I'm sure the 911 operators and dispatchers are trained, but still, mistakes happen.

Still, really bad treatement of the OP by the officers in this case. No excuse for that once the "situation" as it were, was under control.

 

[jgreiner]

Agreed. I think it varies greatly by department
Do you think:
1) It is out of fear of guns and project that into their preception of law,
or
2) They do not mind guns and are just ignorant to laws.

It is discussed and trained but I think human nature takes over sense society in general is taught how evil guns are and the person carrying the gun (especially OC).

I think it is the general public that has the hysteria about guns, and the LEO's just try to keep the hysterics to a minimum (though it does permeate some LEO's as well). Sometimes they do it through intimidation of the OCers.

Now...compare the irrational fear of guns to the irrational fear of spiders. If I walk around with a Tarantula on my shoulder.....does that warrant 911 calls? Am I responsible for other people's phobias?

 

[donnie1581]

As to the OP of this thread, I would have called to have someone go pick my wife and kids up and I would have went straight to an attorney's office to file a civil suit. Just saying.

You were absolutely legal in every sense of the word and nothing has changed in the laws.

 

[LeeStreet]

My thoughts are that the LEO's should train just like what we are doing on INGO. Egg on their faces should go all the way up the ladder. As was said, training on Indiana gun laws is what needs to be done. If this were to come to a full fledged investigation,& the officers are indeed guilty of over extending their authority, they may be hard pressed to make anything stick in a court of law. The County Prosecutor might say that if officer numbnuts arrests anyone, I'm not going to prosecute anyone the he/she brings to court, because the Prosecutor doesn't want egg on his/ her face either. Prosecutors don't like to lose. The officer should know the law, & abide by it so that he/she will have credibility, and a good knowledgeable relationship with co-workers, & the public.

 

[Hayseed_40]

The Prosecutor's office, for the good or the bad, can affect much change on a police department. They are also, in many cases, charge with updating the depts on laws.

Contact your PA and have them send a memo to the depts "reminding" them of teh law.

 

[youngda9]

What steps is the TS going to take to remedy this situation? Are you making steps to file a complaint and obtain all the necessary information? I haven't seen TS say he is doing this...I've only seen it suggested that he does. (long thread, might have missed it somewhere)

 

[cobber]

The 911 call would be very telling. If the caller made the complaint and made no attempt to stay on the line, what would that say?

Maybe the caller was terrified and took cover under a desk. Maybe he's still there today.

 

[cobber]

My thoughts are that the LEO's should train just like what we are doing on INGO. Egg on their faces should go all the way up the ladder. As was said, training on Indiana gun laws is what needs to be done. If this were to come to a full fledged investigation,& the officers are indeed guilty of over extending their authority, they may be hard pressed to make anything stick in a court of law. The County Prosecutor might say that if officer numbnuts arrests anyone, I'm not going to prosecute anyone the he/she brings to court, because the Prosecutor doesn't want egg on his/ her face either. Prosecutors don't like to lose. The officer should know the law, & abide by it so that he/she will have credibility, and a good knowledgeable relationship with co-workers, & the public.

Prosecutors often don't really know what the police are up to, unless the police send a report to the prosecutor's office. "Today we arrested a man for OC in violation of Indiana law..." Then the prosecutor gets on the phone to the captain.

But if the report never gets forwarded, and the citizen doesn't file a civil suit, then the problem may not get corrected.

 

[Hayseed_40]

Maybe the caller was terrified and took cover under a desk. Maybe he's still there today.

Well he did have a gun visible

 

[Scutter01]

I wonder how the court case would play out if you insisted on being arrested for the imaginary crime. Would it still be a false arrest if you were literally asking for it?

 

[cobber]

Well he did have a gun visible

I'm scared even thinking about it...

 

[donnie1581]

I wonder how the court case would play out if you insisted on being arrested for the imaginary crime. Would it still be a false arrest if you were literally asking for it?

I was thinking if I were in this situation, I would probably tell the officers, "If you believe I am breaking a law, then you need to do your job and arrest me or ticket me or whatever is appropriate." All while thinking please arrest me so I can sue the pants off your sorry arse!

 

[TotinOne]

The officer then asks the staff if I can put my weapon in my car and come back in and they said no, I have to take my weapon all the way home and disarm myself and then retrieve my family.

Agreeing that this situation is handled wrong on many levels... I also can't seem to get past this ^^
What the heck is that? How can "the staff" (assuming this is the clinic staff) require someone to go "all the way home" before reentering their premises? I think I would have left the gun in my trunk, go park on the street nearby (removing the gun from their property), and immediately walk back in to get my family. Even walking in while the LEOs were still there. NObody can tell you where you have to go,... unless they're taking you to jail.

 

[Compatriot G]

I wonder how the court case would play out if you insisted on being arrested for the imaginary crime. Would it still be a false arrest if you were literally asking for it?

I had a situation once similar to this. An officer was screaming at me and asking me if I wanted to go to jail. I told him, repeatedly, to do whatever he felt was necessary. My crime? Having a shotgun in the backseat of my car. The LEO first told me it was illegal to carry a long gun in Indiana. I asked him for the IC number on that one. He then said only LEO's were allowed to carry loaded long guns in Indiana. Once again, I asked for the IC number on that. This was when he started screaming at me and asking me if I wanted to go to jail.