Disarmed by cop during stop

[todkapuz]

Of course, telling the officer you have a CCW and a firearm FIRST when he comes up to the door, instead of waiting until during or after the traffic stop coversation is in your best interest too..

I guess the point he made clear is to be proactively very respectful, courteous and informative to the officer (even if he's a jerk) just to keep yourself out of inadvertant or accidental trouble due to a "honest" mistake.

My $.02

While in Texas, we had to present CHL and inform status (ie carrying or not)... there is no such requirement in Indiana. Sure, I will agree with you, it is polite to provide the identification and say you are or arnt; however, I don't think there is anything of a mistake by not. You have a right to say nothing at all, if you so choose. If its not germane, I don't think I would bother informing. I don't care to add anything else to his mind than whatever it was he is stopping me for in the first place. Maybe there is a manhunt going on for a man with a gun, and hey, I've got a gun, could I be the man they are looking for? ... I do believe there is case law that if you have presented your valid LTCH (normal stop -> buldge -> gun? -> ltch was okay -> searched anyway and found drugs... thrown out for no pc for doing the search etc), then they don't even have any reason to go any further with that line of thinking.

Now by no means say "No I don't have a gun" when you do. That would be an issue.

 

[mrortega]

Ben and I got pulled over and the cop actually made Ben get out and then the cop frisked him. He also disarmed him. I think Ben wrote about it in another thread. Ben didn't decline the search but Ben did make a lot of phone calls afterwards.

Ummm, did your daddy maybe ask you how well you knew this dude before you got married? Just curious.

 

[Mackey]

If fellow INGO members feel that they should fight the good fight and stand up to law enforcement, good luck with that. I wouldn't recommend it because you will likely get jacked up and packed off to jail to let the judge (hopefully) determine that you were within your rights. But in any event you will not personally gain anything from this, there will be no change in the enforcement of the law and you won't be getting a payday for it. I'm sure it will look good on your resume, especially if you miss a few days of work for it. Also expect your vehicle to be gone through with a fine toothed comb (hopefully, you're clean as a whistle).
Like I said, I wouldn't recommend it and that's "why".

 

[mrortega]

Because of society's view of cops and the job they do. Because the courts would be your only friend in this matter and they don't take kindly to people disobeying an order that doesn't present imminent danger in its eyes. Because cops and prosecutors are trained to exploit the thousands of ridiculous laws that you haven't even heard of to use against you at their leisure. At any point in time you are probably breaking some law or they can just make one up like "disturbing the peace". That one gets used a lot in these scenarios

I thought about you when I started this thread, Frosty. You stood up for your rights when you were hassled at the zoo and I hope the city takes it in the kisser (especially since I live in Posey county.) That's why I wanted to see the legal authority behind what has evidently happened to a lot of posters. If cops were allowed to make the rules it would be about as bad a living in Illinois.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

If fellow INGO members feel that they should fight the good fight and stand up to law enforcement, good luck with that. I wouldn't recommend it because you will likely get jacked up and packed off to jail to let the judge (hopefully) determine that you were within your rights. But in any event you will not personally gain anything from this, there will be no change in the enforcement of the law and you won't be getting a payday for it. I'm sure it will look good on your resume, especially if you miss a few days of work for it. Also expect your vehicle to be gone through with a fine toothed comb (hopefully, you're clean as a whistle).
Like I said, I wouldn't recommend it and that's "why".

Like I said before: there is a big difference between standing up for your rights and breaking another law like civil disobedience... In my experience the only immediate recourse to not comply but not resist either. It worked for me but YMMV.

I will end with I have actual repeated first hand experience in this arena. Many others post their opinions, speculations, theories or their good buddies stories. What I say has been tried and tested in reality but there are MANY other circumstances that come into play.

 

[TMU317]

If cops were allowed to make the rules it would be about as bad a living in Illinois.

I find it hard to believe this statement, as it is very general. The same general statement could be made in reference to any other group of people. The law enforcement community is made up of individuals from the greater community. Thus, you will find police officers who are anti gun and you will also find police officers who are pro gun. I know/have spoken with many police officers and the overwhelming majority are not/have not been anti gun in any way at all.

 

[rw496]

I thought about you when I started this thread, Frosty. You stood up for your rights when you were hassled at the zoo and I hope the city takes it in the kisser (especially since I live in Posey county.) That's why I wanted to see the legal authority behind what has evidently happened to a lot of posters. If cops were allowed to make the rules it would be about as bad a living in Illinois.

What's the zoo story??

 

[fireblade]

For those who don't know when you are pulled over for a traffic stop when the officer runs your information he is advised of your points and if you have a carry permit i hear it every night on the scanner
If a officer ask to search your vehicle or ask for your weapon all you got to say is....... I do not agree for you to search or for you to take my weapon but i must obey a officer's order are you ordering me to search my vehicle ? or take my weapon ?.......... if he say yes let him its on him at that point. After the stop and you are on your way file a complaint with the department he is with and take it as far as you can. Thats the time to fight about it..... never at the stop.........

 

[Smokepole]

For those who don't know when you are pulled over for a traffic stop when the officer runs your information he is advised of your points and if you have a carry permit i hear it every night on the scanner
If a officer ask to search your vehicle or ask for your weapon all you got to say is....... I do not agree for you to search or for you to take my weapon but i must obey a officer's order are you ordering me to search my vehicle ? or take my weapon ?.......... if he say yes let him its on him at that point. After the stop and you are on your way file a complaint with the department he is with and take it as far as you can. Thats the time to fight about it..... never at the stop.........

Absolutely. And since the LEO is going to find out I have a LTCH when he runs my license anyway, my course is to hand him my DL, registration and LTCH and play it by ear from there. Always respectful and courteous though.

 

[psychosocialmaggot]

the law

There are a lot of loop holes in the law. It states the you can transport "long" guns; ie: shotguns, rifles & even semiautomatics ARE covered under one part of the law however if an officer deams appropriate you could be charged with possesion of a deadly weapon, even if you're not a felon.

On a side note, if you have a handgun in your vechile without a permit you are most likely going to catch a concealed weapon charge.

Yet, I digress

 

[psychosocialmaggot]

Fireblade is absolutely correct. You'd be more apt to get shot than having a converasation with the office about due process or correct police procedure

 

[jsharmon7]

There are a lot of loop holes in the law. It states the you can transport "long" guns; ie: shotguns, rifles & even semiautomatics ARE covered under one part of the law however if an officer deams appropriate you could be charged with possesion of a deadly weapon, even if you're not a felon.

On a side note, if you have a handgun in your vechile without a permit you are most likely going to catch a concealed weapon charge.

Yet, I digress

There isn't a charge of simply possessing a deadly weapon in Indiana. You can't be charged with anything for possessing a long gun as long as you're not a felon. You can transport handguns without a permit under certain circumstances such as going to the range, gun store, etc. so long as you follow the rules for doing so.

 

[figley]

For those who don't know when you are pulled over for a traffic stop when the officer runs your information he is advised of your points and if you have a carry permit i hear it every night on the scanner
If a officer ask to search your vehicle or ask for your weapon all you got to say is....... I do not agree for you to search or for you to take my weapon but i must obey a officer's order are you ordering me to search my vehicle ? or take my weapon ?.......... if he say yes let him its on him at that point. After the stop and you are on your way file a complaint with the department he is with and take it as far as you can. Thats the time to fight about it..... never at the stop.........

is this legit? or is it like the rumor about asking a hooker if she's a cop, and if she is, she has to tell you?

 

[Titanium_Frost]

is this legit? or is it like the rumor about asking a hooker if she's a cop, and if she is, she has to tell you?

Kind of. It assumes the officer has no legitimate reason to search without a warrant: you have a smell of marijuana when he talks to you. In this case, if an officer has no legitimate PC (probable cause) he has no reason to violate your fourth amendment any further and cannot search you. Your vehicle, occupants nor take your weapon for any length of time. That is why you must remain courteous. If you seem threatening then he can take your weapon for officer safety.

A traffic stop is considered a form of "Terry stop" and as such you already lose some of your rights. At any point in time the officer may ask you out of the vehicle and you must comply. There is no recourse for anything at this point. It would be helpful to let him know and say "I do not consent to a search of myself or my vehicle," it would also be helpful to have some sort of recording device that you do not have to inform the officer of but you may want to if you feel the stop is getting out of hand.

Also, if you are picking up women and have to ask them if they are cops to keep yourself out of jail I would advise trying a different method...

 

[Rookie]

Fair enough, but if the officer wants to illegally seize your firearm, he/she is going to get it. I agree that it shouldn't be a problem saying "no officer, you have no grounds to confiscate my firearm, it is much safer on my hip," but when that isn't a good enough answer for them, what is the next step?

As far as I can tell, officers can seize your weapon under "terry stop" guidelines, they feel you're armed AND dangerous. This brings us to IC 35-47-14-3 which clearly lays out what steps are to be taken. Any other seizure requires a warrant.

So, if an officer wants my weapon, my question will be, "sir, do you believe I am a danger to you or others?" Regardless of what his answer is, my next statement will be, "I do not consent to an unlawful search or seizure of my property, but I will not stop you from doing what you think you need to do." After the officer seizes my firearm, I will politely ask for a receipt. After I receive my ticket (you know I'm getting one), I will refuse to take possession of my firearm explaining to him that IC is clear on what steps to take.

Then it's off to court. If the officer can convince the judge he felt I was dangerous, we'll go from there. If he can't, I'll try to file suit for violating my rights.

 

[Double T]

It is my understanding that you do not have to step out of a vehicle if asked during a stop for a moving violation?

I've been asked to step out and declined before. I also was young and a smart&ss so to each his own

 

[mrortega]

I find it hard to believe this statement, as it is very general. The same general statement could be made in reference to any other group of people. The law enforcement community is made up of individuals from the greater community. Thus, you will find police officers who are anti gun and you will also find police officers who are pro gun. I know/have spoken with many police officers and the overwhelming majority are not/have not been anti gun in any way at all.

Don't you think that any officer if given the choice would rather walk up to a night time traffic stop on a lonely road knowing that the driver PROBABLY didn't have much chance of having a gun? I would.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Don't you think that any officer if given the choice would rather walk up to a night time traffic stop on a lonely road knowing that the driver PROBABLY didn't have much chance of having a gun? I would.

I am confused by this statement... How does having a gun make them a threat again? Are you saying they don't want to walk up on people with guns? Are you distinguishing them from actual dangerous people and I just didn't read it right?

 

[MeechisGotAGun]

I was disarmed by a cop a couple days ago. Wasn't a traffic stop, my car had broken down in the middle of the road and he took my only means of defense, well other than my fist

 

[Titanium_Frost]

As far as I can tell, officers can seize your weapon under "terry stop" guidelines, they feel you're armed AND dangerous. This brings us to IC 35-47-14-3 which clearly lays out what steps are to be taken. Any other seizure requires a warrant.

So, if an officer wants my weapon, my question will be, "sir, do you believe I am a danger to you or others?" Regardless of what his answer is, my next statement will be, "I do not consent to an unlawful search or seizure of my property, but I will not stop you from doing what you think you need to do." After the officer seizes my firearm, I will politely ask for a receipt. After I receive my ticket (you know I'm getting one), I will refuse to take possession of my firearm explaining to him that IC is clear on what steps to take.

Then it's off to court. If the officer can convince the judge he felt I was dangerous, we'll go from there. If he can't, I'll try to file suit for violating my rights.

+1! I never even thought of that! I would hate to have my gun go into evidence though but it could be a good way to burn them for abuse of authority.