Do laws deter?

[abnk]

There is a military leadership axiom that says: "Never give an order you know won't be obeyed". The more laws enacted because someone cries "DO SOMETHING" about a particular pet peeve, the less respect people have for the law. Speed limits are one good example; income tax law is another. When the law is so complex and voluminous that only lawyers understand it (and that only the parts they study as a specialty) and everyone becomes a criminal in one way or another, people find it easier to disregard the laws they disagree with. It's a slippery slope that's brought us to the brink of governmental tyranny at all levels and it will be hard to turn the tyranny back. I can't think of a single new law (as opposed to a law repealing another law) that we need in this country or that would be good for us.

I don't know about that. The regulation about not being on the phone while driving on post is a stupid one, but many people follow it because it's not worth an Article 15.

 

[abnk]

We have a couple of ideas here that are separate.

1. Do laws deter crime?


Well, no. The probability of being caught and severity of punishment deters crime.

You're arguing semantics. The severity of punishment is established by laws, so if the severity of punishment deters, laws do automagically.

 

[abnk]

I think laws do deter crime. The one against jumping off really tall buildings seems to work.

I used to skydive and knew many people who would have BASE jumped were it not for the legal risk.

 

[littletommy]

The answer to the OP is a simple NO. We have laws, right? Practically everything is against some sort of law, right? We have millions upon millions of violations of just about every law there is, on any given day, right? NO, laws do not deter crime. Period.

 

[Bendrx]

Very strict gun laws seem to work great in Japan. Why couldn't we do the same here? Because we are to selfish to give our firearms for the benefit of the greater good.

But we don't have suicide parks either.
Suicide | The Japan Times Online

I don't think we would be good drinking buddies.

 

[Lex Concord]

Oh no you didn't approximate the acceleration due to gravity at 9 m/s^2. All engineers everywhere have just had a simultaneous stroke and must now take a moment of silence to repair the space-time continuum.

Next time, please use at least 9.8 m/s*s. This will sufficiently reduce the harm suffered to mechanical engineers everywhere. Thanks,

I'd like to say I did it on purpose for just that effect...I was tired....and my last physics class was a loooooong time ago. Probably a good thing I opted not to continue on with the engineering major

You'd think getting egg on my face like this would deter me from wanting to be a smartass....still waiting for that deterrent effect to kick in

 

[E5RANGER375]

i think stiff consequences deter.

If every child molester knew they would end up as hog chow if they touched my daughter then im sure it would help deter them. some, maybe not. but i bet you it would work better than our failed judicial system, plus i would kill them anyways no matter what, so its just a waste of tax money by sending them to court or jail.

 

[Jeremiah]

Do you speed? are you aware that everyday you probably commit three felonies a day? Sir I think you have some things to sit and consider, First what is right and wrong has little to do with whether or not that act is legal. In new Zealand it is illegal to use a firearm for self defense, so are you wrong for popping a knife wielding intruder with your shotgun?

i think if the legal risk is all that has kept you from trying things, you must have lived quite the sheltered life. I haven't every smoked pot, (illegal) but because I have no interest to smoke, I also have never smoked cigarettes, they are legal, but I have no interest in smoking.

and as far as considering "legal" everything hitler did, was strictly speaking not against German law under Nazi rule.

 

[hoosiertriangle]

Oh you'd wish there was more deterrent effect if all the mechanical engineers in the world fell over dead from stroke or heart attack by underestimating the acceleration due to gravity more than 8.2%.

But in all seriousness, thanks for owning up to the egregiousness of the estimation. It has soothed my mini-stroke greatly.

I'd like to say I did it on purpose for just that effect...I was tired....and my last physics class was a loooooong time ago. Probably a good thing I opted not to continue on with the engineering major

You'd think getting egg on my face like this would deter me from wanting to be a smartass....still waiting for that deterrent effect to kick in

 

[308jake]

Gun control laws are designed to disarm the law abiding population so that we cannot rise up against the government. The government knows criminals will always have access to firearms the same way they had alcohol during prohibition. Their goal is to disarm their flock.

 

[leftsock]

You're arguing semantics. The severity of punishment is established by laws, so if the severity of punishment deters, laws do automagically.

Laws only carry weight if they're enforced, and we have many that aren't. There's no magic to it.


Let's go back to the beginning:

Do you all honestly believe that tougher gun laws would not decrease deaths caused by guns? Sure, some sociopaths will do what they want to do no matter what, but most sane criminals will be disincentivised if the punishment were hard enough.

Tougher gun laws like what? Describe a proposed law that would be "tougher" than our current ones and will directly decrease deaths caused by guns. Just claiming that "tougher laws would decrease deaths caused by guns" is a vapid statement.

 

[Blue Tile Spook]

Really? Do you think adultery and promiscuity are as prevalent in Islamic countries as here, in the US? To me that's proof that harsh punishment does deter the behavior it punishes. Of course, it will never deter 100%, but it works. Chicago laws are not harsh enough.

From my experience in two countries in the Persian Gulf in 1990-1994, adultery, prostitution, promiscuity, homosexuality, child exploitation and child molestation were quite prevalent. Many of the guards (local population) at the base where I was stationed TAD took long weekends (3 day), going to "the market" to drink and do things that were not allowed in their local area. Many quietly spoke to us about what was to be found in the market and what they did there. It was done with a wink and a nudge.

 

[Benny]

Very strict gun laws seem to work great in Japan. Why couldn't we do the same here? Because we are to selfish to give our firearms for the benefit of the greater good.

You could possibly be posting in the wrong forum...But that's just a guess.

i think stiff consequences deter.

If every child molester knew they would end up as LIVE hog chow if they touched my daughter then im sure it would help deter them. some, maybe not. but i bet you it would work better than our failed judicial system, plus i would kill them anyways no matter what, so its just a waste of tax money by sending them to court or jail.

Fixed.

Do you speed? are you aware that everyday you probably commit three felonies a day?

Just out of curiosity, what felonies to "law abiding" citizens commit on a daily basis?(This is a genuine question)

 

[Armed Eastsider]

Just out of curiosity, what felonies to "law abiding" citizens commit on a daily basis?(This is a genuine question)

I was wondering this myself. One could argue that pretty much everybody breaks atleast 1 law a day (traffic violations etc), but I dont think the same could be said for felonies, much less 3 a day.

 

[Jeremiah]

I was wondering this myself. One could argue that pretty much everybody breaks atleast 1 law a day (traffic violations etc), but I dont think the same could be said for felonies, much less 3 a day.

Amazon.com: Three Felonies a Day: How the Feds Target the Innocent (9781594032554): Harvey A. Silverglate: Books


here are some videos that discuss similar ideas

YouTube - Don't Talk to Cops, Part 1

YouTube - Don't Talk to Cops, Part 2

 

[Blackhawk2001]

What do these videos say? (for those of us who are video-ly or bandwidth-ly challenged).

 

[Jeremiah]

the videos explain why police are really not your friends and you should never resist them, but don't talk, if forced to talk, say very little. the first video is a law professor, and the second is a retired detective. He talks about some dirty tricks he used to close cases, and others he had heard of.

 

[Lex Concord]

Very strict gun laws seem to work great in Japan. Why couldn't we do the same here? Because we are to selfish to give our firearms for the benefit of the greater good.

Japan has a completely different culture with respect to weapons in general which goes back long before Columbus landed in the New World, and possibly before Leif Erickson did.

It was generally considered unacceptable for the common folk to have weapons (swords). It enforced class separation; much the same as the original intent of gun control. Unfortunately for the Japanese, enforcement was so effective and long standing that it has become part of the national culture.

Out of curiosity, what do you perceive as the "greater good". Collective benefits usually imply that some number of individuals is getting completely screwed - such is the nature of the collective.

 

[leftsock]

Very strict gun laws seem to work great in Japan. Why couldn't we do the same here? Because we are to selfish to give our firearms for the benefit of the greater good.

A country could eliminate firearms entirely. That would reduce gun-related deaths. We'd just have to find more interesting ways to kill each other then.

You know, for the greater good.

 

[Muzzle Flash]

Holy cow!!!!! . You know this has been discussed since roman times and were still discussing . Let me tell you my pet beeve about all of this . I forget the exact congress that said it , but I believe it was the congress during G.W.'s first term . And the quote is (or really close to it) We worked harder than the last congress and it's evident by us passing 326 new laws and the last congress only passed 112 .