Do you have the right?

[NordicHeathenVinlander]

Im curious about something, I just recently thought.

Are Individual Americans able to reject the Government, while still living in the Nation.
In rejection, I mean, total to include paying taxes, and establishing it's own "community".

This gave me the thought, if this allows a loophole.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

You may thank the anarchy thread

 

[Scutter01]

Tread VERY lightly. This will not become a discussion about overthrowing the government. If it's necessary to close this thread, it will be followed by immediate and long-term bans.

 

[Archaic_Entity]

I think it's an interesting hypothesis, although ultimately unable to exist.

While there may arise a situation wherein people deem it necessary to excommunicate themselves from the current government, they immediately become hostile in the attempt to create their own dominion on American soil. That's exactly what occurred in the Civil War. The attempt to secede was put down because they became a foreign, hostile nation.

Now, you may try to say that you're attempting to be a friendly nation, but there's no way to accomplish that if you're on American soil, claiming it as your own.

Ultimately, it falls to the fact that there's no laws in the US that support you. The DoI is not a legal document, but a declaration of intent they sent to the king. You'd have to set your own precedent of 'secession' that allows an autonomous community or personage. The US government would likely not allow that precedent be set, and the only angle I can think of is the American-Indian angle. But I would find that a hard spin.

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

IBTL

 

[MarkM]

IBTL

 

[Eddie]

Im curious about something, I just recently thought.

Are Individual Americans able to reject the Government, while still living in the Nation.
In rejection, I mean, total to include paying taxes, and establishing it's own "community".

This gave me the thought, if this allows a loophole.






You may thank the anarchy thread

No. This is what the common law/sovereign citizen movement tries to do. You can't decide not to pay taxes, you are subject to the law and all of its requirements. There are some things you can do, like minimalizing those things that you do that require you to pay taxes. For example you could grow your own food rather than buy it in a store, but if you head down to the liquor store for a six pack of beer you will need to pay the tax regardless of your belief. In the same vein, you could chose not to drive a car, but if you want to drive, you have to get a license and a plate and insurance and do all of the things that the law requires.

Yes, there are some narrow exceptions like the Amish have for Social Security, but the trade off for those is that you have to be Amish, you can't just create your own new religion.

I don't neccessarily support this, I am just stating a fact in the same way I would if you asked me what will happen if you stick your hand in boiling water.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Eddie, I beg to differ what if you are Amish . . . or a member of the Obama Administration cannot you refuse to pay taxes?

What if your wife sleeps with Bill Clinton for a pardon while you flee to Switzerland?

I have lots of exceptions.

 

[Eddie]

Eddie, I beg to differ what if you are Amish . . . or a member of the Obama Administration cannot you refuse to pay taxes?

What if your wife sleeps with Bill Clinton for a pardon while you flee to Switzerland?

I have lots of exceptions.

Like I said, there are narrow exceptions. The tradeoff is that my wife would have to sleep with Bill Clinton.

 

[Joe Williams]

No. If you wish to do that, yer gonna have to find an unclaimed piece of land, and make your own little country.

 

[NordicHeathenVinlander]

Thank you for the replies guys. Are Indian Reservations considered seperated from the U.S. Government?
I've seen on TV that they basically govern themselves, and I've heard certain American laws do not apply on Reservation.


Im curious if there is any connection there.


Edit:

An Indian reservation is an area of land managed by a Native American tribe under the United States Department of the Interior's Bureau of Indian Affairs.

Because tribes possess tribal sovereignty, even though it is limited, laws on tribal lands vary from the surrounding area.

 

[Joe Williams]

Thank you for the replies guys. Are Indian Reservations considered seperated from the U.S. Government?
I've seen on TV that they basically govern themselves, and I've heard certain American laws do not apply on Reservation.


Im curious if there is any connection there.

The Indian Nations were established by treaty, and they have some sovereignty.

 

[hornadylnl]

Cities are annexing sub divisions to expand their tax base. Do you think a government entity of any size is going to give up tax payers?

By the way, this topic is great for trolling.

 

[littletommy]

Haven't you seen the episode of Family Guy where Peter tried to do just this? I think we all know how that turned out.

 

[NordicHeathenVinlander]

Haven't you seen the episode of Family Guy where Peter tried to do just this? I think we all know how that turned out.

I guess I'd have to cal my little stinkhole Nordeia?


Peter... That feller is quite a character. Reminds me of the subway guy

 

[Eddie]

NHV,

Have you done any reading on Greenland? Articles I have read say that climate change is melting the glaciers and opening up all kinds of new land and creating an agricultural boom. There was a natural geographic article on it this summer that even showed some locals with their Viking tattoos.

 

[lashicoN]

Cool topic. I think we can talk about this without advocating any violence or "overthrowing". Hopefully this interesting topic can stay open for a while.

I was just actually thinking about this the other day. I was thinking how nice it would be if our country was set up for two types of people. City people and country people. I believe (but haven't given a ton of thought to) that most laws passed by our legislatures are designed with cities/towns in mind. Speed limits, curfews, drinking restrictions, business licensing, carrying firearms, public anything, noise violations, etcetera, etcetera.

Wouldn't it be neat if the people who wanted to be governed tightly, protected heavily, live very near other people/businesses, and taxed a bit more for all of these seemingly nice perks (if you actually want them) could all just live in cities/towns.

And all the people who wanted to grow gardens, hunt for part of their food, perhaps school their children, work their land, defend themselves with proper arms, and basically be free could live in the country. They would pay no property tax, and as a result, wouldn't have paved roads, have local town use of fire/police departments and most of the states laws with cities/towns in mind wouldn't apply to them.

Major statewide laws such as trespassing, murder, stealing - would still apply to the entire state, but country residents would pay no local taxes and receive no local government support while city/town people would pay higher taxes and receive more government assistance.

Wouldn't pretty much everyone get what they want? Some problems would arise, say when a country resident goes into the town/city to do any sort of business armed with self-defense while the city has banned citizen carry...then again, if all governments also had to obey the Bill of Rights, then most of those problems would also be out the window.

Thoughts anyone? Is this a crazy idea?

 

[lashicoN]

NHV,

Have you done any reading on Greenland? Articles I have read say that climate change is melting the glaciers and opening up all kinds of new land and creating an agricultural boom. There was a natural geographic article on it this summer that even showed some locals with their Viking tattoos.

Anyone know what gun laws are like in Greenland? They opted out of the...what is now known as European Union.

 

[CarmelHP]

Anyone know what gun laws are like in Greenland? They opted out of the...what is now known as European Union.

Licensing, registration, safe storage laws, interviews of friends and relatives and neighbors before issuing a license.....need I go on?

 

[SavageEagle]

Cool topic. I think we can talk about this without advocating any violence or "overthrowing". Hopefully this interesting topic can stay open for a while.

I was just actually thinking about this the other day. I was thinking how nice it would be if our country was set up for two types of people. City people and country people. I believe (but haven't given a ton of thought to) that most laws passed by our legislatures are designed with cities/towns in mind. Speed limits, curfews, drinking restrictions, business licensing, carrying firearms, public anything, noise violations, etcetera, etcetera.

Wouldn't it be neat if the people who wanted to be governed tightly, protected heavily, live very near other people/businesses, and taxed a bit more for all of these seemingly nice perks (if you actually want them) could all just live in cities/towns.

And all the people who wanted to grow gardens, hunt for part of their food, perhaps school their children, work their land, defend themselves with proper arms, and basically be free could live in the country. They would pay no property tax, and as a result, wouldn't have paved roads, have local town use of fire/police departments and most of the states laws with cities/towns in mind wouldn't apply to them.

Major statewide laws such as trespassing, murder, stealing - would still apply to the entire state, but country residents would pay no local taxes and receive no local government support while city/town people would pay higher taxes and receive more government assistance.

Wouldn't pretty much everyone get what they want? Some problems would arise, say when a country resident goes into the town/city to do any sort of business armed with self-defense while the city has banned citizen carry...then again, if all governments also had to obey the Bill of Rights, then most of those problems would also be out the window.

Thoughts anyone? Is this a crazy idea?

Crazy idea, but I like it!

It would really be nice and sounds a lot like a dream I once had.

 

[Johnny C]

I had always thought splitting the nation into conservative and liberal halves would be an interesting experiment. After a few years, all the liberals would be sneaking across the border into the conservative nation to get away from the high taxes and crime.


Of course this would never happen, the liberals couldnt give up half their tax base from which to support their social programs.