Do you return fire?

[ATM]

...The polices tend to take extreme umbrage at being fired upon & tend to respond with prejudice.

Me too.

No way would that end well for you...

Well, since I'm being shot at, it's not exactly starting very well for me, either.

 

[nakinate]

The argument about legal trouble is weak IMO. I'd rather face the severe legal consequences of killing a cop in that scenario than have to bury my wife or children. I could spend life in prison if I knew it was a result of me protecting my family against a very real threat.

I plan on never visiting NYC though. So, my odds of encountering this scenario are a lot less than they would be otherwise.

 

[nakinate]

Also, are you even allowed to carry in NYC?

 

[1911ly]

Only cops and bad guys can carry in NY city. So it's a really safe place have no fear! not!

 

[Giddaltti]

No, why wouldn you if you know its the cops. Feelings aside, no!

 

[SMiller]

I would see the situation and would have left before it got to me, worst case I would be taking cover or hitting the ground, I have seen to many dash cams where people were just going on with their day before/during/after a shooting. Blows my mind!

 

[Amishman44]

Were the two women innocent bystanders who wandered into crossfire or were they the intended targets?

My understanding is the 2 women were behind the BG...and the 2 officer's who fired simply missed their intended target!

Return fire...unknown...tough call!

I will say this...one heck of a lawsuit!!!

 

[Amishman44]

I would see the situation and would have left before it got to me, worst case I would be taking cover or hitting the ground, I have seen to many dash cams where people were just going on with their day before/during/after a shooting. Blows my mind!

As a former EMT...you'd be amazed at the number of people whom things just don't register with as it's happening as to the exact nature of events and the degree of the potential danger that they are exposed to! Because I'm aware of things (due to my experience as an EMT)...I tend to see things and take steps to avoid 'issues' before they fully manifest themselves...and am able to provide a degree of safety to myself and my family! Knowing what the possibilities are heightens one's abilities to see and recognize danger...and take steps to avoid!

 

[HoughMade]

Tough guy talk...ignoring the facts of the scenario and assuming shooting back is the only option. This is what I come to INGO for!

 

[Amishman44]

Tough guy talk...ignoring the facts of the scenario and assuming shooting back is the only option. This is what I come to INGO for!

I think seeking cover to protect yourself and/or family with the purpose of preventing (additional) injuries would be the 1st priority!

Second would be ascertaining the situation and determining whether return fire is warranted as returning fire may result in you BEING the next target!

Under the circumstances of being caught in a fire-fight...not an easy call! If you're wounded....that may be something that affects your decision!

 

[HoughMade]

I don't disagree with any of that.

...but the kneejerk "sure I'd shoot the cops" is about as predictable on INGO as the "false flag" claims within the first hour after every mass shooting.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Assuming that the incident isn't over by the time the person facing the question realizes it happened, there are a few questions which come to mind which could greatly influence the answer I am likely to give:

1. What are the police actually doing? Depending on whether they are demonstrating that they are as skillful at hitting their intended targets as Obama is at following the Constitution, hosing down the crowd with the presumed intent of hitting an unidentified target, or deliberately targeting me for some strange reason will yield different answers. In my case, I would consider a direct response in the event of being (wrongly) individually targeted or a mass hosing given that in either case I am likely to get shot if I don't shut them down first.

2. What are the circumstances? Am I in a crossfire, behind the BG, or just uncomfortably close to the action? If trapped in a crossfire or as a backstop in a place that does not afford egress, shooting the BG that the police are demonstrating they cannot hit may be a viable option.

3. Who are the police involved? Knowing them individually (for good or ill) or the department (again, for good or ill) can greatly influence the answer I am likely to give. After all, the police I have encountered range from some of the finest human beings walking to some of the worst and most dangerous living outside of prison bars.

As HoughMade pointed out, there are too many variables and unanswered questions. No action (aside from ducking), or jumping in (against one side or the other, maybe both) may be in order depending on things we do not know either in the situation held up as an example or in any hypothetical which could potentially occur.

 

[Slawburger]

My understanding was that the police weren't shooting at the women, they were shooting at a BG near the women. If you aren't the target, then don't make yourself one by opening fire on the police. Get down, get gone or get vocal.

 

[Hoosier Cowboy]

Never a good ideal to shoot at police, it's not going to end good for you regardless of the situation.

 

[Whosyer]

Shoot the bad guy.

 

[Paul30]

People need to learn to recognize "hard cover". Drywall doesn't stop a bullet and in a situation where bullets are flying, you don't have a lot of time to analyze the situation. You should on a daily basis recognize what could you get behind that would stop a bullet and what would not. Partial cover is better than no cover. Laying down behind a curb covers most of your body, hiding behind a brick building covers all of you. Sometimes there isn't a best answer but perhaps a better solution. If I can reduce my chances of being shot that's what I will do. There have been many cases where people have impersonated police officers to be able to safely disarm or shoot someone. There have also been rogue cops who simply snapped and started shooting people too. ANY person intentionally shooting at me will get fired upon if nothing else to get them to stop while I am finding cover or safety. If they are ducking, they usually aren't shooting, the definition of suppression fire. I am not familiar with the NY scenario, but the question was fairly open and what ifs and "what might happen later" go out the window when you have an immediate threat to your life. Yes, if you shoot a cop shooting at you it will be a tougher day in court, but it's better than a quiet day at the morgue.

 

[Mormprepr]

Things may have changed, but when I was in the academy our law instructor told us that if we were committing a violent that a civilian has the same right to stop us as they do anybody else committing the same act.

That being said its not so cut in dry. Unless an officer is shooting at you or your family it would be impossible to know if the person they're firing at is or is not a fleeing felon. You also wouldn't be justified in using force if you were unintentionally struck by a "stray" round. As others have said there are too many variables.

With all that in mind, if a random LEO just walked up and started shooting at you without warning according to what I was taught (many years ago) you'd be justified in using the force required to stop the threat.

 

[jbombelli]

I shoot the bad guy. Then I shoot the cops. Then I take their wallets and their guns. Then I hop in my car and run down some pedestrians. Maybe I run a few folks off the road while I'm at it. At some point I'm sure to jump out with my rocket launcher and shoot down some police helicopters. Then, when I have at least a 5-star wanted level I go to Pay 'n Spray to get my car painted and give them all the slip. After leaving the paint shop I go pick up a hooker, take her to the park and have my way with her; then I kill her with a bat and take my money back.

Damn you, Grand Theft Auto!

 

[Dead Duck]

I'd grab as many people around me as I could and we'd all take cover behind my wife.

 

[Lebowski]

I'd grab as many people around me as I could and we'd all take cover behind my wife.

Human shield? Haha.