Doctors attempt to force chemo on boy.

[steveh_131]

Glad I went with an actual pediatric oncologist recomendations in my sons cancer treatments.

I'm glad you were afforded the freedom to make medical decisions for your child based solely upon the opinion of a near-complete stranger who just happened to graduate from medical school.

Some of us would like the same freedom to make medical decisions that are not coerced by male nurses wanting to save the world.

 

[steveh_131]

You are seriously off your rocker man. They don't come with guns toting and take your kids. CPS comes and takes the child, they get the treatment, then they might go home.

You have serious paranoia issues and general mistrust. Just because a few are corrupt, doesn't make everyone corrupt.

Being angered by the thought of government officials kidnapping your child and committing acts of medical care upon him is 'paranoia'?

What, then, would you qualify as a legitimate fear?

 

[rambone]

You are seriously off your rocker man. They don't come with guns toting and take your kids. CPS comes and takes the child, they get the treatment, then they might go home.

You're joking right? CPS doesn't ask for your kids. They are coming to take them by force. And when you refuse to lick the kidnappers' boots, they will send a SWAT Team and have you arrested.

You have serious paranoia issues and general mistrust. Just because a few are corrupt, doesn't make everyone corrupt.

You just said you would force medication on an unwilling family. Are you one of the "few" that I should be paranoid about? Its not like this is the first story I have read about government busybodies terrorizing families over medical decisions.

Keep trolling.

Keep "advocating" that all my rights be taken away. Some day we'll live in a utopia where personal choice is outlawed.

Not withstanding your vast knowledge of treating childhood cancer,

Glad I went with an actual pediatric oncologist recomendations in my sons cancer treatments.

Your oncologist could be the smartest man on the planet. His RECOMMENDATIONS still cannot be FORCED on unwilling families.

Since Double T didn't answer me, I'll ask you: Can you comprehend the rage you would feel if your kid was forced to take "horrific" treatments that you were completely opposed to? What if I were the government official who gets to pick how your child gets raised? You have so much faith in the system making the right decision, but what happens when it DOESN'T?

 

[Hotdoger]

I'm glad you were afforded the freedom to make medical decisions for your child based solely upon the opinion of a near-complete stranger who just happened to graduate from medical school.

Some of us would like the same freedom to make medical decisions that are not coerced by male nurses wanting to save the world.

Seeing the male nurse knows more than you and Bone will ever know about childhood cancer treatments says alot about your posts.

 

[Hotdoger]

Your oncologist could be the smartest man on the planet. His RECOMMENDATIONS still cannot be FORCED on unwilling families.

First the oncologist was a woman, so your sexism is so noted.
Next she was part of a team that reviewed cases every week to review treatment protocols .
Like most of the public you are ignorant to what really happens in treatment and throw in your antigovermentt hypocrisy and it is just icing on the top of the big BS cake!

 

[turnandshoot4]

So somebody disagrees with your infallible treatment plan. They take a firm stance that they will not comply with YOUR wishes. You are willing to send men with guns to break into their home, arrest the parents, kidnap the child, and forcibly medicate them. You wear the lab coat, and know what's best. And when the child dies an agonizing death despite your best drugs, the parents should take comfort in knowing that you had wet eyes after their kid passed. Maybe you will send them a postcard -- in the prison where you sent them. That's a heartwarming way to help a family.

Like I said, this is Medical Fascism.

You, Rambone have a right to die. I am fine with that. You, Rambone do NOT have the right to condemn your child (if you had one) to die. Your "rights" do not control your child. Your child had rights and they are their OWN.

Children are not property.

Chemo is the best option we have at the time. In the 19th century we cut off limbs because they were shot. We now look at that as barbaric. It was the best treatment they had a the time. Many would have died if they hadn't done what had to be done.

IF your 27% statistic is correct you are still WRONG 73% of the time.

Medical fascism? Give me a break. Please have the courage to tell someone who is looking for any option ot live that they shouldn't take chemo. Tell them that it is medical fascism and the doctors "just happen to have a medical degree."

Your ignorance towards the medical field continues to astound me.

 

[steveh_131]

Seeing the male nurse knows more than you and Bone will ever know about childhood cancer treatments says alot about your posts.

Believe me, if I ever need to know about childhood cancer treatments, I will become an expert on it.

I will make informed medical decisions for me and for my children, and you and the nurse can shove it.

Chemo is the best option we have at the time. In the 19th century we cut off limbs because they were shot. We now look at that as barbaric. It was the best treatment they had a the time. Many would have died if they hadn't done what had to be done.

So can I safely assume that you would have advocated for forced amputations on children if that was still the standard for medical care?

Would you be the one chopping at the little boy's leg with a hatchet, or the one holding a gun on the parents while it was chopped?

Medical fascism? Give me a break. Please have the courage to tell someone who is looking for any option ot live that they shouldn't take chemo. Tell them that it is medical fascism and the doctors "just happen to have a medical degree.

You know what takes courage? Taking responsibility for decisions for yourself and your family and living with the consequences.

Playing follow the leader is easy.

 

[rambone]

First the oncologist was a woman, so your sexism is so noted.
Next she was part of a team that reviewed cases every week to review treatment protocols .
Like most of the public you are ignorant to what really happens in treatment and throw in your antigovermentt hypocrisy and it is just icing on the top of the big BS cake!

Are we still in the same thread, or are we just having 2 entirely unrelated conversations?

This is about FORCED medicine. Let me know when you want to discuss it.

 

[turnandshoot4]

So can I safely assume that you would have advocated for forced amputations on children if that was still the standard for medical care?

Would you be the one chopping at the little boy's leg with a hatchet, or the one holding a gun on the parents?
I have sent plenty of parents to CPS. I have been a child in CPS custody. I will gladly do whatever it takes to save a life.


You know what takes courage? Taking responsibility for decisions for yourself and your family and living with the consequences.
No, that is cowardice. Condemning someone else to die for your views, values, or whatever is cowardice.


Playing follow the leader is easy.

Ouch man. That really hurt. Ouch.

 

[Double T]

Male nurse? Ouch. I'll have to remember that while I'm waiting in the unemployment line. Didn't realize we were doing reverse sexism. But, alas, I am used to it in this field.

I'm merely stating the facts. Chemo continues even after someone has one test showing them "cancer free" due to the increasing occurrence of new cancer sites, especially in the later stages of cancer.

Cancer of the bones, as this boy had, often spreads throughout the body due to the fact that your bones create your new blood cells, and your blood cells go all throughout your body.

To state that the doctor's aren't acting in this child's best interests without knowing the staging of this boys cancer is quite honestly ignorant. I am simply stating the Normal course of treatment.

If you have further clinical evidence that suggests that doctors simply stop with one "cancer" free diagnostic, then please, I am all ears. Until then, please stop spreading the ill informed "truth" you so loudly proclaim.

What's that phrase? Idiots tell everyone what they know the loudest? Or something like that. I'm not too savvy on the insults like others appear to be

 

[Hotdoger]

Are we still in the same thread, or are we just having 2 entirely unrelated conversations?

This is about FORCED medicine. Let me know when you want to discuss it.

You blasting life saving chemo treatments was not about 'forced treatments".

You have posted before about your hatred of chemo drugs because of your own life experiences.
The truth is you can't admit is chemo drugs have saved millions from death because of that fact.

 

[steveh_131]

I have sent plenty of parents to CPS. I have been a child in CPS custody. I will gladly do whatever it takes to save a life.

Ever been wrong? Ever made a decision that wasn't yours to make and ended up harming the child instead of helping?

To state that the doctor's aren't acting in this child's best interests without knowing the staging of this boys cancer is quite honestly ignorant. I am simply stating the Normal course of treatment.

If you have further clinical evidence that suggests that doctors simply stop with one "cancer" free diagnostic, then please, I am all ears. Until then, please stop spreading the ill informed "truth" you so loudly proclaim.

What's that phrase? Idiots tell everyone what they know the loudest? Or something like that. I'm not too savvy on the insults like others appear to be

You're missing the point entirely.

The point is that parents are better equipped to make life altering decisions for their children than government bureaucrats or even nurses.

I'm not here to argue the efficacy of chemo or to discuss the 'standard' methods of treatment. I'm here to stand up for parents' rights to raise their children how they see fit, and to keep you do-gooders out of our lives as much as possible.

You're no better than the fools trying to tell me I shouldn't keep a gun in my house (and whaddya know, the last one was a doctor). You could be the world's greatest actuary and show me all the statistics you want. You can probably make a pretty eloquent and convincing case for why a firearm in my house is statistically more likely to injure my child than to defend us from a home invasion.

But the risks and benefits are mine to weigh, not yours. You're not the one who has to live with the consequences. Offer advice, offer counseling, be the best at your job that you can be and help people that way. Initiating force is not the answer.

 

[findingZzero]

Second guessing the doctor and treatment protocol may be stupid...QUOTE]

Its not stupid. It is in your vital self-interest.

1. Hopefully you've done your research before submitting to the protocol and doctor(s).

[/QUOTE=And what of the large percentage of patients who die as a direct result of the poisonous chemo drugs? Is that evidence that the doctor is a child-abuser?

2. See above. It's called 'informed consent.' I suspect more die w/o treatment.
Chemo sucks (my lab invented a drug), but it's the best we've got currently. Pray/research for something vastly better.

p.s. if you want to continue this argument, I'm afraid I'm going to have to charge you....

 

[rambone]

Medical fascism? Give me a break. Please have the courage to tell someone who is looking for any option ot live that they shouldn't take chemo. Tell them that it is medical fascism and the doctors "just happen to have a medical degree."

I'm not standing here telling people how they must live. It is their family, and their CHOICE. There is no single correct answer. That is the entire point of what I'm saying.

Please have the courage to tell an unwilling family that their child MUST take "horrific" treatments that they refuse. To them, the mandatory medicine looks a lot like fascism.

Remember the woman who had a 10 hour police standoff with the armed woman refusing to drug her kid? That's the corner you are putting these families into.

You, Rambone have a right to die. I am fine with that. You, Rambone do NOT have the right to condemn your child (if you had one) to die.

Are the government's good intentions are better than the parents'? Does the government have the right to "condemn" the child to die from chemo side effects?

Your "rights" do not control your child. Your child had rights and they are their OWN.

Parents do have legal control of their children. As they should.

Children are not property.

They are not property of the State.

Chemo is the best option we have at the time. In the 19th century we cut off limbs because they were shot. We now look at that as barbaric. It was the best treatment they had a the time. Many would have died if they hadn't done what had to be done.

I support your right to use the treatment that you choose.

IF your 27% statistic is correct you are still WRONG 73% of the time.

We ALL have a 100% mortality rate.

Right and wrong are a matter of opinion. And they are decisions that should be left to families, not government.

 

[steveh_131]

You blasting life saving chemo treatments was not about 'forced treatments".

Statements like the following are the reason he is discussing the efficacy of chemo:

No, that is cowardice. Condemning someone else to die for your views, values, or whatever is cowardice.

You see, this statement is based upon the false premise that foregoing this round of chemotherapy is the equivalent of 'condemning someone to die'. They are not at all equivalent. This is all based upon odds, odds that are truly anyone's guess.

Example. Let's say your son has a brain tumor. The doctors start throwing around numbers. Surgery is risky. There's a 90% chance it will kill him and an 80% chance that it will damage his brain further. Without surgery, there is a 70% chance that he will die within 10 years.

What do you do? If you choose to do the surgery and he dies, did you just condemn him to die? If you don't do it, and he dies, did you just condemn him to die?

This isn't black and white. What means more to you? Or your son? 10 more years of enjoying his life with a functional brain? Or rolling the dice on a surgery?

Wait, time out. It actually doesn't matter what means more to you. Some piece of trash in a government office already decided your son's fate. Buh bye.

 

[wally05]

This is pretty cut and dry for me... states don't own the children. The parents have legal authority over them. Would you allow the states to force an adult to continue chemo if he/she didn't want do so?

For those stating that it is ridiculous to think that the doctors don't have the health of the child in mind with their decision.... why would you think that a PARENT would not have the health of their own child in mind when they make this decision?

I have a baby boy.... 2 weeks old today. I do everything for this child now and will always have his future and health in mind with every decision I make. I cannot imagine watching my child go through chemotherapy. If he doesn't want do it anymore and I think that is fine, then that is what we would do. Sadly, the health institution as it is, doesn't always have the health or safety of a person in mind with each decision... They are afraid of either being sued or want the money.

 

[turnandshoot4]

Male nurse? Ouch.

Hey now, nothing wrong with male nurses.

Ever been wrong? Ever made a decision that wasn't yours to make and ended up harming the child instead of helping?
Skull fractures are usually a good indicator. Wrong? Maybe. Foster care is no fun, I'd know. Are they likely to fracture a childs skull? Most likely not.

You're missing the point entirely.

The point is that parents are better equipped to make life altering decisions for their children than government bureaucrats or even nurses.

Wrong. Mr. Burger flipper is better equipped to make decisions on when to flip burgers. That is it. The key phrase here is better equipped. The fact is Joe Blo parent doesn't know **** about the medical field.

A point about nurses. Our job is to protect you FROM the doctor and FROM yourself. Do I advocate the flu vaccine? Never. Pneumonia? Sometimes. h1n1? Never. The fact is that most people (especially on here) are totally ignorant of the facts. It is my job to give them so people can make an informed decision.

I'm not here to argue the efficacy of chemo or to discuss the 'standard' methods of treatment. I'm here to stand up for parents' rights to raise their children how they see fit, and to keep you do-gooders out of our lives as much as possible.

Let your child die by not giving them care. The law has shown that they will be held responsible.

You're no better than the fools trying to tell me I shouldn't keep a gun in my house (and whaddya know, the last one was a doctor). You could be the world's greatest actuary and show me all the statistics you want. You can probably make a pretty eloquent and convincing case for why a firearm in my house is statistically more likely to injure my child than to defend us from a home invasion.

This fool keeps a gun in his house, car, and other various places. I am not blind to the facts of the other side. The fool is blind and deaf. The doctor was right, doesn't mean you shouldn't have a firearm.

But the risks and benefits are mine to weigh, not yours. You're not the one who has to live with the consequences. Offer advice, offer counseling, be the best at your job that you can be and help people that way. Initiating force is not the answer.

 

[steveh_131]

A point about nurses. Our job is to protect you FROM the doctor and FROM yourself. Do I advocate the flu vaccine? Never. Pneumonia? Sometimes. h1n1? Never. The fact is that most people (especially on here) are totally ignorant of the facts. It is my job to give them so people can make an informed decision.[/QUOTE]

This was the only part of your post that seemed at all relevant to my points.

And I sort of agree with it. Your job is to give information to people so that they can make their own decisions. Not to make that decision for them.

I don't agree that your job is to protect me from myself. I don't need or want your help with that. Stick with handing out information.

 

[ATOMonkey]

Why would a nurse need to protect me from a doctor? I thought it was established that doctors only have my best interests in mind.

 

[rambone]

A point about nurses. Our job is to protect you FROM the doctor and FROM yourself. Do I advocate the flu vaccine? Never. Pneumonia? Sometimes. h1n1? Never. The fact is that most people (especially on here) are totally ignorant of the facts. It is my job to give them so people can make an informed decision.

This was the only part of your post that seemed at all relevant to my points.

And I sort of agree with it. Your job is to give information to people so that they can make their own decisions. Not to make that decision for them.

I don't agree that your job is to protect me from myself. I don't need or want your help with that. Stick with handing out information.

Information is good. Options are good.

The final decision stays with the family.